HOW WOULD YOU SCORE THIS ONE?

JUDE · Post by **JUDE** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:24 am

How far was the fence from the point of breakdown ???

The reason I ask is that I suspect you did not get a check on the blue collar and I suspect it was due to the point of loss being so close to the fence that enough line wasn't established to score the check in the judges mind ???

This is all a GUESS so if I'm wrong Please don't scold me

.

Buddy

Buckeye Bob · Post by **Buckeye Bob** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:00 am

My 2 cents.As a judge you have to look at what the dogs are doing and rarely have the fortune to get a visual on the rabbit and how it ran.It can be tough as a handler to see the rabbit and then the hounds and then a score that does not quite line up with what you saw.Or to know your hound well enough to hear it run and know what its doing.In LP a judge has to make judgement calls,some of them split second and some to be reviewed with help if you have it.With that being said my answer is,I would have had to be there to score it....or not score it for that matter.I judged a cast last Sat. that I had to apologize to the handlers for the poor job I did in giving the dogs a chance to score and me a chance to score them.(a story for another day)I thoroughly enjoy judging but am very aware that I must give my best and some times that will involve mistakes.I like your scenarios Danny,they are fun to solve over a cup of coffee and a keyboard but when you have just gutted yourself to keep up,lost your hat in the mother of all briar patches,and still trying to figure out exactly what happened at the last check it can be tough.

buddy_line_kennels · Post by **buddy_line_kennels** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:44 am

just by reading this AND THIS IS MY OPINION, if one wanted to be an arse about it, the judge could have minused your dog at the fence for pulling the dogs outta the check area BUT it's one of those scenarios that i would have been there to see.

amanda

MObeagler79 · Post by **MObeagler79** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:37 am

That's exactly what I was thinking, it sounds as if they got the line established, if so, check on blue, then if they had went over and had another breakdown, on the other side of the fence teh a minus on blue for pulling out of check area, because of fence or what ever reason.

danny vansickle · Post by **danny vansickle** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:07 pm

buddy_line_kennels wrote:just by reading this AND THIS IS MY OPINION, if one wanted to be an arse about it, the judge could have minused your dog at the fence for pulling the dogs outta the check area BUT it's one of those scenarios that i would have been there to see.

amanda

HOW CAN YOU MINUS BLUE FOR PULLIN?THEY WHERE NOT IN A CHECK AREA AT THE FENCE,THEY WHERE IN FULL STRIDE

LIKE I SAID,PLEASE JUST GIVE OPINIONS OF WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE SCORED,THANK YOU.

YES I DELETED A BUNCH,I ASKED FOR NO ARGUMENT,THEN I WENT AND PLAYED RIGHT INTO ONE,NOT AGAIN.

buddy_line_kennels · Post by **buddy_line_kennels** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:27 pm

danny vansickle wrote:
buddy_line_kennels wrote:just by reading this AND THIS IS MY OPINION, if one wanted to be an arse about it, the judge could have minused your dog at the fence for pulling the dogs outta the check area BUT it's one of those scenarios that i would have been there to see.

amanda
HOW CAN YOU MINUS BLUE FOR PULLIN?THEY WHERE NOT IN A CHECK AREA AT THE FENCE,THEY WHERE IN FULL STRIDE.EVEN WITH A MINUS,BLUE WINS THE CAST 115 TO 100......

AS FOR SOMEONE BEIN THERE,YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO WAS VERY WELL,YOU ARE MARRIED TO HIM.

LIKE I SAID,I JUST WANTED OPINIONS ON THE CALL,OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE HERE AGREES WITH THE ONE JUDGE IN THE CAST THAT ALSO FELT IT WAS A GOOD CHECK,IF HE HAD STOOD HIS GROUND AND NOT LET THE OTHER JUDGE TALK HIM OUT OF IT,HOW WOULD THE HOY OPENS RACE LOOK THEN??????

LIKE I SAID,PLEASE JUST GIVE OPINIONS OF WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE SCORED,THANK YOU.

WELL, I WASN'T THERE. I SAID JUST BY READING THIS...THIS IS WHAT I GOT OUT OF IT. I SAID IF ONE WANTED TO BE AN ARSE THEY COULD HAVE MINUSED HIM. SERIOUSLY THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE I'D HAVE TO BE THERE.

SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT...ARE YOU BASHING MATT NOW OR THE JUDGE? HOW IS IT MATT'S FAULT??? WHATEVER...I'M NOT ARGUING, I WAS JUST GIVING MY OPINION LIKE YOU ASKED. SORRY

danny vansickle · Post by **danny vansickle** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:32 pm

buddy_line_kennels wrote:
danny vansickle wrote:
buddy_line_kennels wrote:just by reading this AND THIS IS MY OPINION, if one wanted to be an arse about it, the judge could have minused your dog at the fence for pulling the dogs outta the check area BUT it's one of those scenarios that i would have been there to see.

amanda
HOW CAN YOU MINUS BLUE FOR PULLIN?THEY WHERE NOT IN A CHECK AREA AT THE FENCE,THEY WHERE IN FULL STRIDE.EVEN WITH A MINUS,BLUE WINS THE CAST 115 TO 100......

AS FOR SOMEONE BEIN THERE,YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO WAS VERY WELL,YOU ARE MARRIED TO HIM.

LIKE I SAID,I JUST WANTED OPINIONS ON THE CALL,OBVIOUSLY EVERYONE HERE AGREES WITH THE ONE JUDGE IN THE CAST THAT ALSO FELT IT WAS A GOOD CHECK,IF HE HAD STOOD HIS GROUND AND NOT LET THE OTHER JUDGE TALK HIM OUT OF IT,HOW WOULD THE HOY OPENS RACE LOOK THEN??????

LIKE I SAID,PLEASE JUST GIVE OPINIONS OF WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE SCORED,THANK YOU.

WELL, I WASN'T THERE. I SAID JUST BY READING THIS...THIS IS WHAT I GOT OUT OF IT. I WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOUR DOG A CHECK, BUT THEN WHEN HE GOT HUNG UP ON THE FENCE AND CALLED THE OTHER DOGS BACK I WOULD HAVE PROBABLY MINUSED HIM...BUT YOU ALSO SAID THAT THE OTHER DOGS KEPT TRYING TO LEAVE AND YOUR DOG HELD THEM THERE...TO ME THAT WOULD BE PULLING THEM OUTTA THE CHECK AREA. BUT THIS IS ALL HEAR SAY, I WASN'T THERE.

SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT...ARE YOU BASHING MATT NOW OR THE OTHER JUDGE? MATT'S NOT HERE TO DEFEND HIMSELF, BUT I W'LL BE SURE TO ASK HIM WHEN HE GETS HOME.

HOW WOULD I BE BASHIN MATT,HE WAS ONLY A SPECTATOR,PLUS,YOU KNOW ME BETTER THAN THAT,I EVEN TRIED TO DELETE THAT TO SAVE AND ARGUMENT,BUT,YOU WAS TO FAST FOR ME

MATT WAS JUST A SPECTATOR,BUT HE COULD EEXPLAIN HOW THEY WHERE NOT IN A CHECK AT THE FENCE,THAT IS ALL I MEANT BY MENTIONIN HIM.

I WISH I HAD NEVER POSTED THIS NOW,O WELL

AND I AM NOT TRYIN TO BASH ANYONE I JUST WANTED TO SEE HOW EVERYONE ELSE WOULD HAVE SCORED IT,OBVIOUSLY,ONE FELT ONE WAY,THE OTHER FELT DIFFERENT.BUT THEY HAD TO MAKE A DECISION FAST,UNFORTUNATELY,IT WENT THE WRONG WAY FOR ME,AND COST ME THE CAST,GOIN TO THE FINALS OF A BIG FIVE,AND EVENTUALY,THE HOY.

I JUST WANTED TO KNOW WHAT EVERYONE ELSE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR MY PEACE OF MIND,THATS ALL.

YOU HAVE A PM.

buddy_line_kennels · Post by **buddy_line_kennels** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:36 pm

OK SORRY DANNY.

I'LL BE WOMAN ENOUGH TO APOLOGIZE.

IT'S NOT VERY OFTEN THAT MATT GETS TO HANDLE A DOG OR SPECTATE, 9 TIMES OUTTA 10 HE'S JUDGING. I JUST JUMPED TO CONCLUSION THAT SOMEONE WAS BASHING MATT...THAT'S THE WIFE IN ME.

I WILL ASK HIM ABOUT IT WHEN HE GETS HOME.

danny vansickle · Post by **danny vansickle** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:38 pm

buddy_line_kennels wrote:OK SORRY DANNY. I'LL BE WOMAN ENOUGH TO APOLOGIZE. IT'S NOT VERY OFTEN THAT MATT GETS TO HANDLE A DOG OR SPECTATE, 9 TIMES OUTTA 10 HE'S JUDGING. I JUST JUMPED TO CONCLUSION THAT SOMEONE WAS BASHING MATT...THAT'S THE WIFE IN ME.

I WILL ASK HIM ABOUT IT WHEN HE GETS HOME.

NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE TO ME AMANDA,LIKE I SAID,I WISH I HAD NEVER STARTED THIS THREAD NOW,LIKE MANY

I THINK IT IS TIME FOR ME TO TAKE A VOLINTARY TIME OUT

I STAYED OFF HERE FOR A MONTH OR SO RECENTLY,MAN,MY NEARVES WHERE A LOT BETTER THEN

SEE YA TOMMORROW

JUDE · Post by **JUDE** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:48 pm

JUDE wrote:How far was the fence from the point of breakdown ???

The reason I ask is that I suspect you did not get a check on the blue collar and I suspect it was due to the point of loss being so close to the fence that enough line wasn't established to score the check in the judges mind ???

This is all a GUESS so if I'm wrong Please don't scold me .

Buddy

Danny , you didn't answer my question .

danny vansickle · Post by **danny vansickle** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:00 pm

JUDE wrote:
JUDE wrote:How far was the fence from the point of breakdown ???

The reason I ask is that I suspect you did not get a check on the blue collar and I suspect it was due to the point of loss being so close to the fence that enough line wasn't established to score the check in the judges mind ???

This is all a GUESS so if I'm wrong Please don't scold me .

Buddy

Danny , you didn't answer my question .

SORRY JUDE,THE DISTANCE FROM THE POINT OF LOSS TO THE FENCE WAS ABOUT 250 YRDS,BUT,THEY HAD RAN THE RABBIT FROM THE CHECK AREA,UP THE HILL AND IT MADE A FEW TURNS BACK INTO THE WOODS AND THEN BACK OUT TO THE FENCE,SO,THEY ACCTUALLY MOVED THE LINE ABOUT 350 YRDS.

JUDE · Post by **JUDE** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:31 pm

danny vansickle wrote:
JUDE wrote:
JUDE wrote:How far was the fence from the point of breakdown ???

The reason I ask is that I suspect you did not get a check on the blue collar and I suspect it was due to the point of loss being so close to the fence that enough line wasn't established to score the check in the judges mind ???

This is all a GUESS so if I'm wrong Please don't scold me .

Buddy

Danny , you didn't answer my question .

SORRY JUDE,THE DISTANCE FROM THE POINT OF LOSS TO THE FENCE WAS ABOUT 250 YRDS,BUT,THEY HAD RAN THE RABBIT FROM THE CHECK AREA,UP THE HILL AND IT MADE A FEW TURNS BACK INTO THE WOODS AND THEN BACK OUT TO THE FENCE,SO,THEY ACCTUALLY MOVED THE LINE ABOUT 350 YRDS.

OIC , from what I can tell check for the blue collar . Isn't there something in the rules about dogs crossing a fence ??? I'm may be mistaken .

eddywilliams · Post by **eddywilliams** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:41 pm

Danny soundslike there are too many questions on judging decisions in this registry what is right what is wrong and some times if it benefits the other person in some way the wrong decision is made if the 2 judges were at odds about the call it should have been taken back to the moh or can you do this ? A lot of the time the best dog doesnt win and your not gonna win them all but it eats at you when you feel like youve been done wrong .... usually what goes around comes around hang in there

RED BRUSH KENNELS · Post by **RED BRUSH KENNELS** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:28 pm

if the rabbit was jumped by someone and the handlers and the judge saw the rabbit and put the dogs on it,a line did not have to be produced.if all the dog's were turned loose on it and gave mouth on the track scoreing would start from the first breakdown.in order to score plus points a rabbit has to either be produced or the dog that is put on the clock has to make a good enough line that the judge belives he has the rabbit up and running.when the dog's were put on the rabbit,it was already produced.if they only went 10 yards and made a breakdown that was long enough for a check you would start scoreing from there.as far as minusing the dog at the fence you could not do that either.the track went through the fence.the dog can't get through the fence,he didn't swing out of the check area and bark and pull dog's out and not produce a rabbit.if there was a check at the fence and some dog's got through and he didn't,he's still at the original check.if there was no check at the fence and one dog got hung and couldn't get through but others did,the dog still shouldn't get minused.he's not barking out of the check area and not produceing.the rabbit went through the fence,it was produced.the handler could have asked the judge if he could help him across.anyone that would have minused the dog for barking at the fence would have been wrong and would haved showed poor sportsmanship.the blue dog should have had a check,if all dogs that were turned loose on the rabbit was running,nomatter how much of a line was put together.i am not takeing up for danny,me and him have had words before.the way the rules are,that's what should have been scored.

MObeagler79 · Post by **MObeagler79** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:02 pm

so you are saying he is producing at the fence ? I have never seen anything about it's a minus for pulling dogs out of a check area and not producing unless it is a fence.