cold nose
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
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bob huffman
b
Lets hear your thoughts on the standard. My thoughts on the standard don't mean anything to anyone. I don't have any more thoughts on the standard. lets hear your thoughts on the standard. My thoughts don't mean anything to anyone. I don't have any more thoughts on the standard. Lets hear your thoughts on the standard. My thoughts on the standard don't mean anything to anyone. I don't have anymore thoughts on the standard. Hoping it is more easily understood for you by repeating it several times. The standard means nothing to me Joe. I don't need the standard. What is the standard. Lets hear your ideas on the standard Joe. I don't really care to discuss the standard with you anymore Joe. I would really like to not have anything more to do with you Joe.. Talk about the standard Joe. Do you like the standard. Do you like Beagles? Do you like anything but the standard. Lets hear about the standard Joe. Enlighten us on the standard Joe. Joe are you still there... OH Joe OH Joe. Go ahead and talk Joe. I think you are right Joe.. Yes Yes, I am sure you are right JOE. Its JOe. Joe do you like Beagles. I bet you like Beagles. Well,,, nice talking to you and come back anytime. Later Joe. See ya big guy. Your the best!! Merry Christmas!!! Happy New Year!!!! Hey Joe, What do you think about the standard? Could you be more specific? Guess you don't want to run dogs uh. I think we should talk about the standard. Well, I'm done. Go ahead and talk JOe. Send me a copy of the standard please. I need to brush up on the standard. Should I be more specific Joe? I think I should, what do you think Joe? Hey Joe, I went rabbit hunting the last 4 days and never shot one rabbit because I was too busy thinking about the standard. Lets talk!!
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snowshoehareguide
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:52 pm
- Location: brownington vermont
steve if u have a dog a little too faulty that can run a hare alone on a real tough day and want to part with her let me know...not worried so much about her messing up the others...... she can run alone if she can do the job...i have some im not in love with that i could sell to upgrade a little... hilbilly only thing makes me want to puke worse is when i go hunting and dogs cant run decent... been happening alot this year..... 2 dogs looked great last year... too many times this year already they havent run like i think they should.... last winter somebody wrote to me that he had good dogs but it was a poor scenting YEAR.... so new year starts thursday --- i hope it will be a good scenting year... pete
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AlabamaSwamper
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:06 pm
- Location: Florence, AL
- Contact:
Joe West wrote: "The quality of a hunting hound cannot be measured by the number of shooting oppertunities the hunter has but can only be measured by the quality of the hounds performance. If we have a pack down and we get shooting oppertunity after shooting oppertunity how do we know which hound is is keeping the rabbit going for us and which ones are just along for the ride?"
Who cares as long as you get shots. It's not hard to find the best one and it should stand out to the owner. If you know your dogs good enough then you will know. I can take my dogs out and tell you real quick which dog is on that day and which ones are not. As long as I am getting shots, I don't really care which one is keeping it going.
I think you stepped out when you wrote that a dog can't be measured by how many shots you get. That is the whole point to hunting a beagle. Getting away from that goal will get you dogs like those brace mutts that folks walk behind. Quit worrying about standards and darn style and get dogs that bring rabbits back to the gun. That is how I judge a good dog or pack of dogs. Beagles are meant to pack up. To heck with standards, it's ruining beagles to much. Give me one or five, don't matter as long as the rabbit stays moving.
Like I said, anyone that knows his dogs well enough can tell you which one is the best of the pack.
Who cares as long as you get shots. It's not hard to find the best one and it should stand out to the owner. If you know your dogs good enough then you will know. I can take my dogs out and tell you real quick which dog is on that day and which ones are not. As long as I am getting shots, I don't really care which one is keeping it going.
I think you stepped out when you wrote that a dog can't be measured by how many shots you get. That is the whole point to hunting a beagle. Getting away from that goal will get you dogs like those brace mutts that folks walk behind. Quit worrying about standards and darn style and get dogs that bring rabbits back to the gun. That is how I judge a good dog or pack of dogs. Beagles are meant to pack up. To heck with standards, it's ruining beagles to much. Give me one or five, don't matter as long as the rabbit stays moving.
Like I said, anyone that knows his dogs well enough can tell you which one is the best of the pack.
"No stronger bond exist than that between a man and his dog."
Link to RabbitDawg board. (Old Southernbeagles board)
http://www.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=6643
Link to RabbitDawg board. (Old Southernbeagles board)
http://www.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=6643
Blackdirt beagles: Off the top of my head I can not tell you. I can recall times when he described hound performances or hounds that impressed him and even some that he owned but that is all.
Alabama Swamper: Perhaps my wording of that paragraph was lacking in that it gave you something to hold onto and forget the rest. Perhaps I should have said we cannot choose the best hound in a pack by counting the number of shooting oppertunities the pack presents. Did you read the next paragraph in that post??? I have no doubt that the beagler who pays attention will know which hound is the best in his pack but he does not know that by mearly counting the shooting oppertunities the pack presents. Style: The hound who accomplishes the most MUST have the best style. It's never bad to know why the best hound is the best. At least you quoted me correctly but I guess you didn't like the second sentance in that paragraph that completed the thought nor the entire following paragraph. I'll try to be more careful with the way I word things in the future. Actually you would think I would know better because that is exactly the type of things some people do with the standard. Grab a hold of one part and forget about the rest.
Alabama Swamper: Perhaps my wording of that paragraph was lacking in that it gave you something to hold onto and forget the rest. Perhaps I should have said we cannot choose the best hound in a pack by counting the number of shooting oppertunities the pack presents. Did you read the next paragraph in that post??? I have no doubt that the beagler who pays attention will know which hound is the best in his pack but he does not know that by mearly counting the shooting oppertunities the pack presents. Style: The hound who accomplishes the most MUST have the best style. It's never bad to know why the best hound is the best. At least you quoted me correctly but I guess you didn't like the second sentance in that paragraph that completed the thought nor the entire following paragraph. I'll try to be more careful with the way I word things in the future. Actually you would think I would know better because that is exactly the type of things some people do with the standard. Grab a hold of one part and forget about the rest.
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snowshoehareguide
- Posts: 393
- Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:52 pm
- Location: brownington vermont
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New York Hillbilly
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 11:54 pm
- Location: Soldotna, Alaska
OK guys and gals here is the scenario. I took a couple of my pups and one of my bitches to the club (100 acres) to get some experience and exercise. When I got there I met up with a couple of club members that were running some hounds also. These guys have and know good hounds. One fella has a hound that is close to finishing AKC Large Pack on hare and the other has finished more than one in the same format. The second fella I mention is an older gent whose opinion I respect and has become a good friend. He not only saw Jack Of All Trades but also tells me he campaigned him as well as Heli Prop and Ninja. According to him Jack was a hound second to none. So I guess what I'm saying is this man has been around some big named well respected hounds and is a good measuring stick for what mine are like, at least I respect his opion.
The other day the temp was mid twenties, a stiff breeze and the snow was hard pack crust with no powder on top. Where there was no snow on the ground there was only ice. The area is full of cottontails and there are a few hares remaining as well. None of the hounds on the ground at the time were able to run anything. My bitch was able to open and begin to run the line but as soon as one of the other faster more competative hounds (or my pups) jumped in front they would blow the race up. What this created was a lot of open, run, breakdown, search. open, run, breakdown....you get the idea. I'm not sure if she could have kept it going even if she were alone and without interuption, although past experience tells me she would have been able to. The elder gent stated it would take a hell of a hound to run on the ice and icy crust that seemed to hold next to no scent.
The next morning I left the house at 6:30 am so I could get running at first light and without other hounds, to see how my old COLD trailer would do. This time I took the same bitch as the day prior and my Cold Nose, as well as one of my pups. Guess what? The conditions were the exact same as the day before,hard crust and ice. This time however the cold nosed bitch opened and proceded to walk the line with my other hounds in tow. After about ten minutes of them walking straight ahead (on an obvious line)with her poping off from time to time the other hounds then began to open and then the hare was jumped from it's secret resting spot underneath a conifer. The race was on and they did a pretty nice job...well lets back up and say it may not have been "pretty" but they did run the thing past me several times. Was it at break neck speed? Nope!! Did they have any checks? Yup....but not many because they were not able to press hard enough to make the hare worry about getting to tricky. And when they did have a loss it was a toss up as to which of my experienced bitches would come up with the line. But the cold nosed old girl definately had the edge. As far ahead of the hounds as the hare was able to remain you could argue the trail was always somewhat cold. One thing is for sure however and that is nothing was being run the day before under the exact same conditions. If a person needed to kill a hare or starve they sure should be able to over look the fact that this hound was opened and trailing long before the others. I could not care less if it took ten or twenty minutes to walk up to this hare because it was tracked to where it was. She was not mindlessly wandering in circles barking she simply was doing what the others could not, trailing a hare she could smell. In her mind she was running it, medium speed when possible and gear down to a crawl if need be. Just get the job done!!! And that she does!! Too much mouth? Not for me!
NYH
The other day the temp was mid twenties, a stiff breeze and the snow was hard pack crust with no powder on top. Where there was no snow on the ground there was only ice. The area is full of cottontails and there are a few hares remaining as well. None of the hounds on the ground at the time were able to run anything. My bitch was able to open and begin to run the line but as soon as one of the other faster more competative hounds (or my pups) jumped in front they would blow the race up. What this created was a lot of open, run, breakdown, search. open, run, breakdown....you get the idea. I'm not sure if she could have kept it going even if she were alone and without interuption, although past experience tells me she would have been able to. The elder gent stated it would take a hell of a hound to run on the ice and icy crust that seemed to hold next to no scent.
The next morning I left the house at 6:30 am so I could get running at first light and without other hounds, to see how my old COLD trailer would do. This time I took the same bitch as the day prior and my Cold Nose, as well as one of my pups. Guess what? The conditions were the exact same as the day before,hard crust and ice. This time however the cold nosed bitch opened and proceded to walk the line with my other hounds in tow. After about ten minutes of them walking straight ahead (on an obvious line)with her poping off from time to time the other hounds then began to open and then the hare was jumped from it's secret resting spot underneath a conifer. The race was on and they did a pretty nice job...well lets back up and say it may not have been "pretty" but they did run the thing past me several times. Was it at break neck speed? Nope!! Did they have any checks? Yup....but not many because they were not able to press hard enough to make the hare worry about getting to tricky. And when they did have a loss it was a toss up as to which of my experienced bitches would come up with the line. But the cold nosed old girl definately had the edge. As far ahead of the hounds as the hare was able to remain you could argue the trail was always somewhat cold. One thing is for sure however and that is nothing was being run the day before under the exact same conditions. If a person needed to kill a hare or starve they sure should be able to over look the fact that this hound was opened and trailing long before the others. I could not care less if it took ten or twenty minutes to walk up to this hare because it was tracked to where it was. She was not mindlessly wandering in circles barking she simply was doing what the others could not, trailing a hare she could smell. In her mind she was running it, medium speed when possible and gear down to a crawl if need be. Just get the job done!!! And that she does!! Too much mouth? Not for me!
NYH
When my life on earth is ended....this is all I'm gonna say...Lord I've been a hard working pilgrim on the way!
I thought you all would get a kick out of these few lines by Ray Libby. Our little discussion here has been going on longer then we know.
" Reno B. Cole wrote in a 1937 issue of hounds and hunting : " I expect many of you will not be prepared to admit that styles do change in work as well as type, but I assure you it is a fact. About thirty years ago Hempfields little dandy's style of running was considered very unorthodox by most breeders of field trial beagles, but in a few years became the fashion, and a fast going very close-mouthed hound was pretty near necessary if you wanted to do much winning. Later on other influances brought to the fore a type of hound that stayed closer to the line, and worked closer on the checks, but which sounded very mouthy to those of us who were accustomed to the other style. Since then there have been many fluctuations." No doubt his referral to mouthiness, was based on this Blue Cap tendancy. By judicous breeding, this quality was controlled, and largely bred out eventually, to the extenet, that while hounds used their mouths more freely, they still retained the quality of honesty in later years.
I can recall as late as 1920, of many hounds put on a line ten minutes old, would follow it silently until they jumped the hare, and on weaker scented cottontail under similar circumstances with a fresher line to follow, hounds would do the same thing. If hounds had opened on these lines many of us old time beaglers would have considered them mouthy. The same is true if they cold trailed a little, and of course cold trailing is a fault."
Ray wrote the above when he conducted a short examination of the Blue Caps over 25 years ago. I wonder how many after us will have this same discussion.
" Reno B. Cole wrote in a 1937 issue of hounds and hunting : " I expect many of you will not be prepared to admit that styles do change in work as well as type, but I assure you it is a fact. About thirty years ago Hempfields little dandy's style of running was considered very unorthodox by most breeders of field trial beagles, but in a few years became the fashion, and a fast going very close-mouthed hound was pretty near necessary if you wanted to do much winning. Later on other influances brought to the fore a type of hound that stayed closer to the line, and worked closer on the checks, but which sounded very mouthy to those of us who were accustomed to the other style. Since then there have been many fluctuations." No doubt his referral to mouthiness, was based on this Blue Cap tendancy. By judicous breeding, this quality was controlled, and largely bred out eventually, to the extenet, that while hounds used their mouths more freely, they still retained the quality of honesty in later years.
I can recall as late as 1920, of many hounds put on a line ten minutes old, would follow it silently until they jumped the hare, and on weaker scented cottontail under similar circumstances with a fresher line to follow, hounds would do the same thing. If hounds had opened on these lines many of us old time beaglers would have considered them mouthy. The same is true if they cold trailed a little, and of course cold trailing is a fault."
Ray wrote the above when he conducted a short examination of the Blue Caps over 25 years ago. I wonder how many after us will have this same discussion.
Hopefully everyone will, and as time goes on there will be less and less like you who don't seem to realize that when a hound's got enough nose to suit a real gun hunter it's most likely going to come with a bit of baggage. When you condemn a hound to 'faulty' for some of the picayune things that I've seen cross your lips, you're pretty much showing gun hunters that you stay inside when you don't think dogs will run well. I know others who do it also, and their ideas and mine also differ.Joe West wrote:Ray wrote the above when he conducted a short examination of the Blue Caps over 25 years ago. I wonder how many after us will have this same discussion.
Just read your response Joe, to a fella's question about how many rabbits he should kill off his dog. You told him 'not many'. If that wasn't a Freudian slip I've never heard one.
Joe, methinks you've gotten so wrapped up in the 'why' that you forget what these knuckleheaded little dogs are actually for.
By the way Joe, Bev's LMAO is shorthand for 'Laughing MY *ss OFF'.
Chris
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www.MillerOutdoors.com
www.Facebook.com/milleroutdoors1
www.YouTube.com/c/MillerOutdoors1
Instagram @milleroutdoors1
Twitter @milleroutdoors
Chris wrote: as time goes on there will be less and less like you who don't seem to realize that when a hound's got enough nose to suit a real gun hunter it's most likely going to come with a bit of baggage. Chris I know that most big nosed dogs have extra mouth, where I say that it is a fault, you say it's a bit of baggage. I want all of my dogs to have big noses, but I don't want a mouthy dog. I think I would like Hillbillys dogs?