Patch hound question

[PREACHERS,KENNEL]

i breed patch hounds and color is not a big thing. i think yalls thinking doesnt bode so well .. if it came from patch dogs descended down from nothing but bred patch dogs how in the heck can it not be considered a patch dog lol. GET A LIFE. and if u dont own any ,,WHY IN THE HECK ARE YOU HERE IN THIS CONVERSATION. . the post was about wanting to know about patch hounds and a young man trying to keep it pure as he can in his mind anyhow as well as ours. SO WHY DID double come in here and talk about this crap to begin with? trouble makers are everywhere if u dont like what a post is about simply dont post on it or dont even look at it much less come in here and take over a post u have no knowledge about!

[doubleb]

first off preacher i answered his question there are no patch hounds and havent been for 40 yrs i own patch bred hounds and ran with patch hounds that were 2 gen. from willet years ago and still run with the guy today that went to n.y and picked them up so i would say my knowledge about patch hounds is about 30 yrs old and the remark about trouble maker i have a phone and a p.m. so lets not get personal on a key bored im off most anytime i want to be so drop me a p.m. be glad to meet and talk it over so you can get a better understanding of me. Brian Burrows (423)650-1000

[marr24]

To me Patch would be Willet Randall's creation and his alone. HIS decesions,HIS insights,HIS intimate knowledge of the two dogs being crossed,HIS assessment of running styles,HIS meshing of compatible traits,HIS culling of weaknesses,etc

Yes, I definitley see what you're saying. This can also be said of "Yellow Creek", "Gay", "Blue Cap", and a whole bunch of other beagle lines out there. I know recently the beagle world has kind of gone away from the line bred hounds to more of an outcross to the field champion flavor of the week. But, if you think about a lot of actual "lines" out there (and I'm not talking about lots of crosses of just one poplular hound and nothing else in common) you would find that most have been around much longer than the original creator. This is true throughout the hunting/sporting dog world.
I understand everyone's concern, but really doubt it's going to change anything. If nothing else the line is called "patch" as a way to let those interested recognize that these dogs are all related and trace back to the same hounds.

.Patch hounds were hare hounds from up-state New York.Now it seems that more than 50 years after the fact most of the "Patch" people are all in the south using their hounds on cottontail.

Really?? While there are many in the south, I know of many more in the north. Some live in hare country-some do not. Those that don't (us included) tend to make many trips up north for the express purpose of running hare. Yes, we mostly run cottontail-but Willet ran cottontail also, he just didn't care to (and I don't blame him).

Also, it seems that whenever anyone talks about Patch hounds they talk about breeding for color. We all know that color doesn't run the rabbit. Whenever breeding for a specific trait takes precedence over the whole package, thats a problem. This may not be happening in Patch hounds, but it certainly gets talked about the most.

I have found that the people constantly mentioning color are those that know virtually nothing about patches. Most think that any dog that is mostly white is a patch hound. While I prefer a good amount of white, it's not really high on the list of priorities LOL.

Bottomline, these are just my opinions, I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers I just felt that I needed to defend the reasons why we still breed and hunt the patch line of beagles. I understand many do not care for them or understand why people are still running them after Willet's death, but there is plenty out there that I do not understand or care for in relation to others' beagles. I guess this is why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream.

Now, I'm going out to run my line of beagles that all trace back to Willet Randall's patch kennel. Haha!

[doubleb]

marr24 i agree with you people keep the name in there for other to see the lingage i like some patch breed hounds the same as branko and other lines i run about for diffent breeds of beagle in my pack iwas not trying to start a peeing contest just stateing that ever who breeds a male and female together that litter is the creation of that breeder and knowone elese because he may be the only person in the world that would have breed that cross.im not angry either i just dont like being called a trouble maker from someone that dont know me from adams house cat.

[JUDE]

That's snow in the background and my Patch male on the leash .

[sgc]

JUDE - that sure is a nice looking hound.

MARR44 - I agree with what you're saying about the old bloodlines. You can call it whatever you want if you want to. I know a guy today who says he has all Blue Cap breeding. He has bred to the point of kennel blindness. He sells these hounds as Blue Caps and has for a long, long time. He has been the principle breeder throughout the past (probably 30 or 40 years). Theres no way I believe these are the Blue Caps of old. I've heard him on a number of occasions say that beagles are "stupid". What do you think? (I'm not saying anything about Patch hounds here, I'm just telling about a situation I know of.)

[PREACHERS,KENNEL]

double it just looked like to me and i know things can be misinterpreted just by reading these post that all u wanted to do was throw off on what the original poster was trying to do or rather maybe slander what he was saying and i still feel that way .. u have a different opinion on the subject than we do so why barge in on his post ??if u are giving me some kind of challenge by putting ur number on there i aint even interested in that lol. and my address and number is in the rabbit hunter i aint hard to find.

[S.R.Patch]

Randall said, "the black blanket craze has ruined many lines of fine hounds, we don't use blankets to hunt but many use them to cover up quiters at the end of a long days race."
Randall said his early hounds were mostly white or open marked from the start and he liked them well as he could see them better when afield and a mostly white hound running in a pack of tri's will get noticed, so whether good or bad you'll get the story on that one...lol
Randall passed in Feb. 1970, so he's been gone now 38 yrs. I never had hounds reproduce so consistantly, pups with hunt and quality of thier lineage and am honored to have hounds from those who've kept this family of hounds together and this line going.
These white and tans are a recessive and don't have the black to offer or they'd express it in themselves. The pool I've bred from have red liver tan and white, but it was nothing about colour, that's just the way it was from what there was to be offered to me. Colour is the easiest traite to breed for. Randall tried to put the black blanket on by using ole Fencer, he got the blanket alright but none of the quality was as good as what he had, so he buried the blanket and stuck with what was tried and true.
None will breed as Randall or claim to but the gift he has left us in responsible hands will carry on for as long as men are honest about what a good hound is and keep those with the qualities all hunters seek to put in their hounds at the forefront of this family's breeding.
A rose by any name or colour smells as sweet...

[doubleb]

preacher i dont give out challenges i was just stating before you judge me as a trouble maker you should get to know me.i give my name and number for that reason but like i guessed you will let the key bored talk for no big deal i just have one opinion you have another im sur willet would be proud of the fine patch hounds you produce

[sgc]

Patch, the "black blanket dog" reference by Randal is an instance where Randal himself admits that breeding for color should not be a priority; so I'm not sure what your point is. I'm not sure why you're using this quote or statement in your post. He was trying to say that breeding for black blanket dogs (color, again / because thats what people were buying) was wrong because it was being put as a priority and therefore other quality hunting traits were not. It sounded like he was guilty of it himself by starting to breed for black blanket dogs and was getting away from what he was looking for in a quality hunting hound. He eventually stopped & went back to what had been working for him before in breeding for good hunting dogs.

[marr24]

Patch, the "black blanket dog" reference by Randal is an instance where Randal himself admits that breeding for color should not be a priority; so I'm not sure what your point is.

I think that WAS his point. People (in this post) thought that too much emphasis in patches were put on color. I earlier tried to explain that this is a common misconception by those that know very little about the patch line. SRpatch just explained why Willet did NOT breed for color and the reasons why. There was one instance where he gave it a go, the quality of hounds produced was not to his standard, so he scrapped it. Not sure how you could have missed this point other than to keep the pot stirred. Nice post Charles, very well said!

[Bopeye]

If you own a Branko dog, you should call it "formerly known as a Branko".
If you own a Patch dog, you should call it "formerly known as a Patch"
If you own a Northway dog, you should call it "formerly known as a Northway".
Etc. etc.

That way some of these boys would quit splitting hairs over things that don't make a hill of beans.

The reason a lof of these dogs still get called Patch, Branko, Northway, Ninja, etc. is just so folks will know what dogs they came from.....
I think it's self evident that if Branko Krpan didn't breed the dog that he didn't breed it.
It's also self evident that Willet Randall isn't breeding dogs anymore since he is deceased, but what do you suggest they are called? Yellow and white dogs of known origin.

You can get a little insight if you read Willet's book, "Wilderness Patchwork". Not any breeders like him anymore. Snuff out whole litters if they didn't make the cut.

Later Taters.

[Done Gone Beagles]

Would someone say all that again

[Bopeye]

Here ya go Done Gone, I'm gonna say it all again.

If you own a Branko dog, you should call it "formerly known as a Branko".
If you own a Patch dog, you should...........

Naw, I was just kidding ya.

Later Taters.

[RiverBottom]

This is a good discussion. Everyone has an opinion, here's mine.

There are 2 main reasons people use kennel names like Patch or Branko: The first is brand name recognition (think Harley Davidson, Winchester, Mossy Oak). This is the most likely reason Willet used the Patch name as his livelyhood depended on it.

The second is pride, vanity, ego, what ever you want to call it. We all have it. It is human nature. All of us would like others to respect us and our dogs. If not for these two reasons, no one would care what name their dog had. Dogs would only have one name, their call name, if not for the two things listed above.

As for the Patch name, I think it fair to say that no one living today can know what dogs Willet would have bred and what he would have culled. Certainly, no one that hunts primarily cottontails would select for the same traits Willet would have. He hunted hare in country that was covered by deep snow half the year.

"Not any breeders like him anymore." - There are a few. They just don't write as well as Willet did

I like to read anything I can find about hounds. In the late 1800's/early 1900's there were foxhound packs in England that raised 100 couple (that's 200) pups each year. From these only about 20 couple were entered each year (read: lived to see their second birthday). From these only a very few were used as breeding stock. This still goes on today with beagles and foxhounds, but they do keep a low profile now days for obvious reasons.

But this is America. If you want to call your dogs Branko or Patch go right ahead and don't let anyone tell you that you can't.