Puppy Mills Good or Bad

Rabbit Hunter 13 · Post by **Rabbit Hunter 13** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:25 am

I've always wonder if puppy mills are good or bad for the sport of beagling. There are alot of breeders these days that just breed females to stud dogs to sell the pups and the females might not even run a rabbit mostly they are just breeding on the pedigrees. This might make some good looking pedigrees but I wonder if they are helping the sport or hurting it. What is your opinion on this.

Thank You

DarrinG · Post by **DarrinG** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:00 pm

Bad, bad, BAD, very BAD!

WELLS WOODS · Post by **WELLS WOODS** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:48 pm

I think that only the good dogs should be used for breeding regardless of thier pedigree.

roygu · Post by **roygu** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:49 pm

Would you consider trialers who raise several litters a year then discard the ones that are unsuitable for trialing a puppy mill.
I doubt if any "puppy mills" did more to harm the beagle as a hunting hound than did the brace trialers and show breeders.

bluehound1 · Post by **bluehound1** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 7:20 pm

I have got two female pups now that are only 3 1/2 months old. I would love to have some pups with them. The one female has a good pedigree. BUT, if they don't make rabbit hounds they are worthless to me and should be for everone. There is no point in raising a litter of pups out of a crap dog. Some people do though. They are just in it for the money and thats just how I feel about it. Me on the other hand its not about the money its about the hunt and the sound of the hounds running. Nothing like hearing a pack of hounds run as long as it's a rabbit. I wish I new every one who breeds ther hounds when the hounds they got won't run a rabbit. I would do my best to put a stop to them ever selling another pup!

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:01 pm

WELLS WOODS wrote:I think that only the good dogs should be used for breeding regardless of thier pedigree.

That's quite a subjective statement, isn't it? What one guy thinks is 'good' might be a total cull to another guy.

Puppy mills are definitely no good.

If someone's breeding Beagles without hunting over them hard first, then I'm against it. I don't care if it's one litter or a thousand litters or if they've won every field or show trial title between here and Europe -- it's doing the breed as a gundog no good.

daustin · Post by **daustin** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:28 pm

The first question I have is what do you consider a "Puppymill" since there is no legal definition for such? It is very subjective.

A puppymill is bad - doesn't matter what breed they are destroying. Most what I would consider puppymills just breed a female (regardless of pedigree) every heat cycle until the dog just dies.

If you'ld like to see the results of a puppymill. Check out http://www.nopuppymills.com or http://www.hsus.org. I'm a member at nopuppymills.com and some of the pictures will make you want to lose your dinner.

Dane

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:34 pm

beleve me and i know what a puppy mill in my are we have about 500 bitchs being bred every time they come in these are not beagles because there not worth enough i have a litter on the ground right now and thats the only litter ill have for the year its the best bitch ive ever owned in 20 years of owning beagles and i dont have any other dogs out of her the puppy mills around here are sturing up the county officals the usda and who knows what else there only in it for the money they dont know what there breeding there just breeding why raise alot of beagles and sell puppies for 200 ehen you can sell any english bulldog pup for a1000 if your in it for the money

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:42 pm

very very bad

Rabbit Hunter 13 · Post by **Rabbit Hunter 13** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 9:44 pm

I tell you what I consider a puppy mill. A puppy mill is a kennel that just breeds all there so called brood bitches on there pedigrees and don't have a clue if they will run a rabbit or what they will do in the field. That just shows me they are in it for the money not for the love of beagling. I have seen some puppy mills and when you walk by roles of kennels that are 4 feet by 3 feet and there are as high as 15 puppys in them that in my opinion is considered a puppy mill. Or when you go by a kennel and there are as high as 10 of those so called brood bitches in that kennel that is 10 feet by 4 feet and you ask what type of dog it is and how does it run or is it fast with a good nose they reply they are started brood bitches that is a puppy mill. And this is no good for beagling.

Thank You

WELLS WOODS · Post by **WELLS WOODS** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:14 pm

What I call a good dog is one that has proven itself in the field under the gun to be a reliable hunting dog. It must have the ability to produce and account for game consistantly, with minimal faulty action. Also, in my opinion, it should have good conformation.
People should never breed any dogs based only on pedigree or because the hound is related to a great hound. It should prove its own ability in the field before being considered for breeding purposes.
Some of the best breeders don't raise large numbers of pups, but they try to increase thier odds by only breeding top quality hounds.

DarrinG · Post by **DarrinG** » Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:21 pm

Beware that someone posted a link to the HSUS website....the HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) is very anti-hunting and a bunch of animal-right's whacko's!

I would not trust anything I saw or read on their website!

New York Hillbilly · Post by **New York Hillbilly** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 12:30 pm

Here is my short take on puppy mills. BAD NEWS! But, if a person wants to make big bucks they would be breeding FAD dogs like Bulldogs, Shi Tzu's (

) or other high dollar pups. Beagles as another person posted prior are low on the list these days. Where the money comes in on beagles seems to me is by making a "champion" by whatever means necessary and the promoting it as the stud to end all studs, who then produces pups that all have the promise to be "super hound" (

). Now if you are willing to fork over a couple hundred bucks on a well advertised and talked about stud you can generate enough interest to sell these super pups without difficulty and for some pretty good money. Call me cynical but I've been around long enough to know the REAL DEAL. I know there are good hunting lines out there and I happen to know that I own hounds out of two of them but I also know there are many just as good if not better ones out there that never are talked about or fall into the "money trap". When money becomes the motivation behind anything it's time to watch out. Is a puppy mill just some nit wit with a back yard full of dogs raising pups and unloading them in a mall to people? Is a puppy mill some guy who promotes his "Champion" and breeds to every bitch that shows up at his door with a couple hundred bucks tied to her lead? Puppy mill by proxy so to speak! Or, how about a guy who breeds his "champion" to every bitch in his backyard and unloads all the pups on hunters, trialers and dreamers until the smoke clears and the interest wanes. Maybe I'm a puppy mill as far as that goes according to who you ask because I raise a litter or two every two or three years for myself to keep my pack going. The other pups I do not keep I may sell or more likely give away because not many up this way want beagles as pets and my hounds are not big name magazine hounds making the news and cannot match the hype. What is a puppy mill? The only one that can answer that for sure is the person who is doing all the breeding and selling. The rest of us can only watch and make an educated guess if someone is doing it for the breed or as a money maker. If it is strictly about money to me, that is a puppy mill.
NYH

WELLS WOODS · Post by **WELLS WOODS** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:09 pm

Just because a guy has a field champion and promotes it does not mean he has a puppy mill. He has spent a lot of time and money training the dog and has exposed his hound to the public at the trials. People must make thier own judgement about how the dog became a field champion(what type of trials did he win and who judged,etc.?) It is up to the owner of the bitch to determine if she is worthy of being used in his breeding program. Without a good bitch, your chances of getting good pups are very slim, no matter what stud you choose. Most serious breeders are not going to spend $200 breeding a poor quality bitch.
If the owner of the stud breeds low quality females of his own just to sell pups then he has a puppy mill, but if someone else breeds thier poor quality bitch to a field champion just to sell pups, the owner of the bitch is to blame.

DG TX · Post by **DG TX** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:09 pm

Professional "puppy mill" operations hurt all breeds but really have nothing to do with the sport of Beagling. Small back yard pet breeders hurt us really worse as they don't realize what they are doing. We have some around here that sell Beagle puppies year round!

They can't tell you hoot from sic-um about the breed except they sell good! Ask them a question about the breed such as hunting/show, Epilepsy or hernias, history, or pedigrees.

They can't give you an answer and usually end up bullsh**ting thier way thru the subject!

Just last month a fellow called me and told how he had got burnt by one of these breeders. Seems when he asked if they would hunt he was told "Oh sure, ALL Beagles hunt"!!