Percentages for stud dogs

[BuschBound]

I in no way want to take anything away from the owners of a stud dog or the dog itself but when a dog is bred over and over to many different bitches they are bound to produce something! Now, I have heard that there are some stud dogs out there that have bred over 100 bitches or more. When a dog has this many breedings I feel alot of good dogs that may not have the opportunities to breed that many bitches may not get the credit they deserve. There are alot of dogs out there today, just here in the NMHA that I can think of that have only bred a handful of bitches and have quite a few Field Champion pups out there or pups placing in trials or just good rabbit hounds. I've looked back into the magazines and seen these other top producers and have heard some of these dogs may have been bred up to 300 times. I'm not sure if this is true or not but with this many breedings how can one call them a top producer? if the percentages are NOT even close to the dogs that may only get a few breedings in a life time and have produced a good number of top quality hounds. Some of my figures maybe a bit off but here are some dogs that I know of that don't get the credit they deserve with the limited breedings. (Some of these dogs are now starting to get more breedings but the numbers are still low.)

IFC Stoney Hills Gator
IFC Green Bay Shooter
FC Birch Lake Pal III
NLPC FC SR Donald Butch
FC Branko's Magic Joey
FTC Money Sunk MT. Man
Meachum's Sport Flash
FC Birch Lake Hector
FC Branko's Cougar Magnum (was close this year for Better Beagling with only a minimum amount of breedings.)

I'd like to hear some other names of other dogs that have been bred just a few times and have good quality pups out there running. Even name some females with very limited breedings. Thanks. Dave Martin

[foxxy]

you have a very good point

[MObeagler79]

Excellent post, just like you say stud dogs that are bred so many times are bound to produce good hounds, all to often people just go with a trend when breeding, the percentage of quality hounds produced means more to me than the total number, not saying stud dogs that have been bred many times can not put up good percentages either.

[tinymwoods]

I don't feel as though you can tell how good of a producer a dog is by the number of titles thier offspring hold. I have ran with champion dogs that couldn't hold the pooper-scuper of some local grade dogs. If someone raises 50 pups out of a dog and all are trialed, that will make a big difference. If 10 are trialed but 35 of them are great hounds, does that make that dog less of a producer? As someone recently told me, if you want to have a good bloddline, breed a good female to a good male.

[Brian Westra]

Interesting post.

GRCH Rabit River Patch - I've been told his is producing some nice pups. Some from his early litters are now champs.

[wildcatfan0309]

thought id throw louis's blue man in the mix
he hasnt been bred to like his littermates
but with only a few breeding s has through some very nice dogs

[BuschBound]

Tinymwoods, I agree with you 100% this is why I even had in my post " Or just good rabbit hounds". I'd like to hear about them all. I only run AKC reg. dogs and I would like to hear about some of the hidden stud dogs that are AKC reg. There is a man in Minnesota (TomMN) I believe. I've talked to that from some of the videos and talking to him I'm sure he has some real nice hounds over there that I would be intrested in seeing run more and possibly breeding to or getting a pup. (if AKC reg.) I'm thinking he doesn't trial but has some very nice hounds. There are alot of fine hounds out there that our not recongnized that should be. I happen to hunt and field trial and the list that I gave was some of the dogs that have done well with the limited breedings. I also had a male when I was young his name was Shingle Creek Lil Rocky we bred him once and he produced some nice running dogs that I would put up agaist any of the dogs of today I see run. He was Colby Hill bred.

[RiverBottom]

UKC puts the number of pups produced and number earning a title right on the pedigree for each dog. They also track top producers by number and percentage:

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/80b2 ... enDocument

Not sure why AKC has never done this?

BuschBound, thanks for the kind words. I don't get out much but you are welcome to come and run dogs any time.

TomMN (had to change my name when the board was changed over)

[NorWester]

Discussions and evaluations of this nature are always so subjective, especially when it comes to studs. At times they're hardly worth commenting on. In my opinion it's the bitches that get the shaft (literally as well as figuratively I suppose ) as more often than not, any half dozen of them won't be responsible for as many pups as some of the more popular studs. It's also occurred to me that the best bloodlines (for whatever style or purpose) are always stacked thick with solid bitches........thats a trend worth noting. When I consider a stud I also concern myself with who his mother is/was and what she produced besides him. This isnt to say that I think bitches influence a breeding any more than the stud it's just that a solid stud can be accessed a lot easier than the best bitch out there, which also leads to misleading stats as far as studs go. Any fool can march his shitty ole nag of a bitch to the best stud going and I'm sure when you put out a superstar to stud there is a lot of that going on and we all know who gets blamed when the pups don't turn out like daddy

[fulcount]

Nwester
you hit on the head! No one should breed anything but a top quality bitch
unfortunatley in todays atmosphere the Dollar has jumped in front of breeding ethics
The dog with a better than average Field trial record and IS advertised gets a lot of play from
people that should not even be breeding a hound with just the thought of selling the pups from FC so and so to make a buck
too many bitches bred just to make puppies with no talent at all with no thought to the
future of the particular bloodline
most are outcrosses and a crapshoot anyway and as per above the female should be
nothing but a solid type rabbit dog before breeding
I've Heard the statement too many times that "Ol Sally wasn't worth a darn so we took a litter of pups off her and sold her' What kind of reasoning is That!! The statement should be That ol Sally wasn't worth a darn so we put her in the ground even if she was the last pup from Ol so and so

John O

[chapkosbeagles]

that is very well said i agree with you but my best dogs parents never hunted they came from hunting ped full of field champions but were never took to the woods so with that said every situation is different what i am wondering is what traits do thows dogs throw i would like to know what is throwing tons of SPEED,NOSE,BRAINS that is what i want to breed to

[Murphy's Kennel]

What about Abshire's levee rd. Junie or Sulivans Go Joe. Don't think either has been bred a whole bunch of times and would like to hear about there off spring. We have a litter of pups on the ground out of Junie who are only a few days old. And I have a female out of Go Joe a little over a year which is pretty dang nice. She was jumping more rabbits at 9 months old then are grown dogs. Just thought I'd throw them in the mix.

[shepherdskennels]

Gr R ch Clarks Rebel II i know this hound has not been bred to many times to peopel who go to feild trails,

but i know of that if you breed him to a good female that he will throw brains, hunt , and desire into his pups,

here is a couple of hounds that i know of that has been trailed

female SHEPHERDS MISS JESSIE JAMES 6 hunts entered 1win and a 3rd

Male HINTONS T-CITY SMOKE i know he is not lacking much to champion out

male BRUSHY CREEKS WILD WILLY champion and is no longer alive

and thier are many others out there that are doing well in these trails

[BuschBound]

Chapkosbeagles, Alot of the dogs up this way that are used in Field Trialing are also used for hunting. I'd say at least 50% of these dogs have had a rabbit killed in front of them. I can't say for all but I do know that IFC Green Bay Shooter and FC Branko's Magic Joey were great hunting dogs and they produced great hunting dogs not to mention quite a few Field Champions for the ones that had the oportunity to run in trials and a very limited amount of breedings.. Now there are alot of guys up this way as well that have never hunted thier dogs due to they just enjoy the sport of field trialing. To each his own. We have alot of Field Trials up this way all year long with maybe only a 2-3 month break. If I don't go to a Field Trial I go hunting and there are some guys who if they don't go hunting they go to a Field Trial.

You say you have some good hounds and I know some of the breeding is the same is what I have here in my kennel. I'm very satisfied with what I have but always looking for better.

Alot of guys have had some really good post on here. Keep them coming.

[HarleyPA]

The problem with looking at a percentage, is that your not getting the full story. If you could get those numbers, they're not good for comparison, because like others have said, all the offspring aren't always trialed, and you don't know how good the dams were.

I'm sure AKC could figure it out, but then they'd want to double the registration fee to put it on the papers.

The only ones who hopefully know what the dogs have produced are their owners. And, I know I'll catch some flack, I doubt you'd be able to get the truth out of 98.26 % of them. After all their trying to sell something, and as my grandmother used to say "a fish peddler doesn't holler "rotten fish"".

IMO, your best bet, is to identify if you want to line breed, in breed or out cross. Pick a handfull of studs, based on their pedigree and your requirements, and watch them AND some of what they have produced. They other piece of it is, don't breed your bitch if you wouldn't be happy with the pups turning out just like her.

Tell ya what burns my butt on here, is when somebody asks how old their dog should be before breeding. Should be darn old enough for you to know all of its faults and strengths. I'll give ya a hint, that isn't eight or ten months old.