Breed to a FC or not.

[ANTHONY KERR]

T LEE wrote:
Not all dogs are producers but the FC Titles are not being handed out at the club door when you get there. They have to be EARNED.

Even the "Flavor of the month" had to earn his Title. If the Back Yard stud you picked is that great ....then it would have nothing to hide by going toe to toe and seeing how it handled the pressure of a Trial.

What I feel is ruining the breed is a bitch that should have been killed years ago, breeding to a FC and expecting great things.

Rick Flair also said "WHOOOOOOO" !!!
I will see you this weekend. You got any new secret weapons to make a run for the money this year ?
Anthony
I go to trials to watch and learn. Winning is a bonus. I have seen a few that I would breed to in the last few years.

[T LEE]

Tom , Could you give us all the short list of the Field Champions that DIDN''T earn there titles???

[T LEE]

Anthony , You gota love some Rick Flair.

I'll see ya at Tazewell Saturday

[Nor' Easter]

I have to ask, How far do you travel to see such stud dogs run ? have you hounds been handed FC titles ?? In what registry ??

[rabbitearl]

I am not trying to put FC dogs down but the few that I have seen.I ve been heartbroken.You call that a rabbit dog.Man I though I was going to see something.I know its hard to have one but there alot out there two.I have never had a FC but I like hunting and trials .I think it should be alot harder to make a FC were if a man got one you donot have to watch it run you know that dog can doit.I think it should be if you put 5 FC it would be the best 5 dogs a man could ask for in rabbit hunting.One of the best dogs that I ve hunting over was a true jump dogs and I think a FC should be the same one that can jump a rabbit with eas and run him in any kind of weather.When you go rabbit hunting and kill ten rabbits the FC jump nine of them and he with five more dogs.I know there not a perfit dog out there but I think a FC should be on up there.I ask a man one time that done alot of trials and won the word hunt that the dogs you got now to rabbit hunt are they just as good.Yes maybe a little better.I hope that yall understand what I am talking about.But I would like to see one day when you see a FC you seen something that very few has.I m like alot of you on here see it run.But I m a little slow I would love to gun hunt over it a couple times.But that just me.I really think theres to many FC out there.But then again if a dog has to be a true jump dog that would take alot of dogs out of trials.That would be alright with me.Most of the guy that comes here to run are looking rabbit dogs not trials dogs hope to see one day this will change.When I can say a FC dog is a rabbit dog one of the best you will see.But I cannot say that now.Can any of you say that.Take any FC dog out there and call it one of the greatest rabbit dogs you see.

[T LEE]

rabbitearl , Not all Field Champions are disappointments.

I would venture to say if you were to drop your dogs on the ground with 5 AKC MidWest Field Champions .....you would soon change your mind.

[tommyg]

Tom , Could you give us all the short list of the Field Champions that DIDN''T earn there titles???

No I won't mention any hounds by name. I've seen it and been told by folks about Buddy Judgeing,most of the Judges I've ran under was right on in their acessment of the pack,but a few weren't and it was obvious. You can cheerlead for FC'S all you want but fact is not all of them are good producers,and backyard studs have their place in breeding. If it makes you feel better I'm planning on breeding to to FC next year and I havn't watched(hope I get to) him run but a good friend Judged him gave him a win and I trust his judgement because he likes the same kind of hound I do,but this is a first for me.

[Newt]

rabbitearl , Not all Field Champions are disappointments.

I would venture to say if you were to drop your dogs on the ground with 5 AKC MidWest Field Champions .....you would soon change your mind.

If they are truly "Champions" none of them should be "disappointments".

[T LEE]

rabbitearl , Not all Field Champions are disappointments.

I would venture to say if you were to drop your dogs on the ground with 5 AKC MidWest Field Champions .....you would soon change your mind.

If they are truly "Champions" none of them should be "disappointments".

Newt , According to some responces on here there must be.

[rabbitearl]

Now do yall see what I talking about.Now you got to go to the mid west to see good FC dogs.A FC is a FC I said take any FC dog and call it a great rabbit dog.

[hounddog]

I will venture to say that rabbitearl has never seen a Mid West FC run. There are different people that like different types of hounds and hunt in different type of terrain therefore what you are asking for will most likely never happen. Apples and oranges so to speak. Most folks from, lets say North Carolina don't run a Mid West style of hounds, therefore they have no concept of the style of hound it takes to become a FC. On the other hand, folks from say, Kentucky, don't know the style of hound that it takes to excell in the SE part of the country. I never will see where questions like these will ever have a right or wrong answer.
Theres my two cent on this topic.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

[jdmart]

I will venture to say that rabbitearl has never seen a Mid West FC run. There are different people that like different types of hounds and hunt in different type of terrain therefore what you are asking for will most likely never happen. Apples and oranges so to speak. Most folks from, lets say North Carolina don't run a Mid West style of hounds, therefore they have no concept of the style of hound it takes to become a FC. On the other hand, folks from say, Kentucky, don't know the style of hound that it takes to excell in the SE part of the country. I never will see where questions like these will ever have a right or wrong answer.
Theres my two cent on this topic.

hounddog
Jim Umbarger

That is a pretty good statement! Some people do trial in the MidWest, North and South but very few. In this topic I see so many people complaining about how a FC should be the worlds best rabbit dog all the time. This world ain't perfect. Lol These people really don't understand trialing and even different formats within AKC. A large portion of SPO or especially large pack trials do not resemble my hunting conditions. One the pack is larger than I hunt with, secondly the dogs jump less rabbits than the handlers, and the time factor is always there like it or not to complete a trial. No AKC does not have one but it has to end somewhere to keep progressing the trial. To each their own, feed what you like, like what you feed. Breed to what you want. One very important factor I see so many get stuck on, one bloodline, or their own dogs. You must have what it takes to win I don't care whose stud it comes from. The traits are what builds FC's. If I breed a dog with extra mouth to dog with extra mouth because it is X blood and I think X is the greatest in the world don't expect it to make a FC. Might be an OK rabbit dog if you can put up with the mouth. It might be the flavor of the week or it might be a nobody sire like my FC's daddy. Complementing traits and a sire's ability to be a reproducer of his traits are what betters the breed.

[SilverZuk]

rabbitearl , Not all Field Champions are disappointments.

I agree. Some are disappointments though.

I also agree with JDMart

The biggest problem is people basing thier decision on a title or pedigree. Those people are breeding to a title or pedigree.
The dog may be a great dog, but not their style.
Maybe they are trying to breed a thorobred with a plow mule. Maybe they love plow mules and that cross isn't going to make them happy.
Maybe your dog is a touch tight mouthed, maybe the FC is. The pups will likely be tight mouthed.
Maybe your dog is a little weak in the hips, maybe the FC is weak in the rear.
Now you have just produced a little of pups weak in the hips, with a FC in the pedigree.
Are those pups ideal? Was that cross bettering the breed?

I am no breeder, but I also realize that the breedings I have done were breeding dogs, not papers or titles.
Some were not good crosses, others were. I never looked at the pedigree until after I selected the dog to breed.

Championing a dog is a rewarding accomplishment. Takes lots of time, money, and miles to do.
It still doesn't tell the world anything about the dog, other than it was entered into field trials and had enough wins/placements to be titled a champion. It doesn't tell you a thing about the dog.

Even considering a title for breeding is ignorant unless you are trying to sell pups and turn a dollar.

[Newt]

In this topic I see so many people complaining about how a FC should be the worlds best rabbit dog all the time.

No not all the time. However, if you are hunting a pack of beagles with one field champion in the pack, shouldn't any knowledgeable houndsman, at the end of the hunt, be able to pick out the he Field Champion based on its outstanding work?

[jdmart]

In this topic I see so many people complaining about how a FC should be the worlds best rabbit dog all the time.

No not all the time. However, if you are hunting a pack of beagles with one field champion in the pack, shouldn't any knowledgeable houndsman, at the end of the hunt, be able to pick out the he Field Champion based on its outstanding work?

I guess you didn't read the post did you. Like it or not a hunt is different than a trial! Yes, a FC should shine most of the time.

This is not a perfect world and if someone is trying to say that one slips by every once in a while it might. But 3 wins and 120 points in AKC is one helluva an accomplishment. It takes many hours to prepare a dog for an AKC trial to withstand a first pack, second pack and a winner's pack. There are many people that have no idea the preperation it takes to get a dog ready to run an AKC trial. A two hour run 2-3 days a week won't get you the blue. I know the Large Pack guys are laughing saying what does an SPO guy know about preperation. They run a considerably amount more to get ready. I have seen guys bring dogs to trials and think they were doing great only to find it fade away in the last 30 minutes of a series. It also takes many miles of travel to that FC title. The only class that could possibly finish with 3 wins and all the points is 15" male and I haven't seen it. A 13" dog is lucky to see enough dogs in 10 trials to get the points if it had 3 first sand 7 seconds. So almost always they prove themselves. I know from expericence most people whom finish dogs in the 13" class have spent many a day, mile and hour on the road and at trials. They are pretty consistent hounds. There are lots of people who are not devoted enough to put that time in to finish one and that is their perogative but don't downgrade FC's. That is like saying an olympic gold medal winner should shine every time out. Ain't going to happen. Run what you love and love what you run!!!