To Out or Not to Out

[bucks better beagles]

I have question for all and especially the moderators. Please forgive me if it is unseemly or out of order. I honestly, don't know the answer.

Is it moral or legal (from the moderator point of view) for one to name a person who has done something dishonest in a dog trade or outright lied about an exchange of money for a dog or something else? The question here is calling someone "out" on the site who has dishonored the sport that we love. An example would be sending someone money in good faith and receiving nothing in return.

Bob-Michigan

[blckcrk-dog]

I am with you bob call em out. because I know for a fact you are a man of your word (g2 tritronics exp I bought from you sight unseen and not knowing you but the sale and item went perfect)thanks again.

[bucks better beagles]

Blackcreeek, thank-you. However, I wasn't encouraging the "calling out". I simply want to know policy and morality. I enjoy this site too much to violate a moderator standard and this would seem to be an area where sensitivities could be involved. I have found on some sites that this is encouraged but on others, highly discouraged,

Bob-Curious in Michigan

[chapkosbeagles]

it is not moral to rip someone off
so with that said who really care if it is right to call them out. they need a

[T Hynes]

I say call them out, they can reply to it and everyone else can use there judgement to decide wether or not to trust them. It could make the difference in some one else getting taken advantage of!

[mybeagles]

From what I have seen, it depends WHO you 'call out'. If it is someone that the majority of the members on here like, the tides will turn very quickly against you. If its someone few people know of, the board will jump on your bandwagon until the guy never returns.

I guess that how life is, be careful who you pick on, especially if they call the shots.

IMO, Im not sure the 'call outs' really solve anything. Do you honestly believe this is the first bad check this guy ever wrote? Do you honestly think after him being called out, he is going to stop writting bad checks? If crooks were worried about what people thought, they wouldn't rip people off. Beaglers are the most gullable because when your looking for a good dog, or some hunting equipment, you want it so bad that common sense gets put aside for the time being. It's happened to us all if you have been in the sport for long.

Mybeagles

[Triple_S]

I have seen it done on here before.
But IMO calling someone out, would inculed all the mud slinging.
which as mybeagles said it dont solve much, if any.

BUT... if someone did me wrong. i would let people know to watch out for the person
with out draging them thru the mud. that would take me down to their level and i try to be a better man than that.
which dont mean i would not show them the right hand of fellowship if i got the chance. i'm just not going to air dirty laundry
on the internet.

but this is just me.

[Bev]

There never seems to be a good place to draw a line in the sand. I've tried (when allowing the exposure) to separate it between "He lied and sold me a bad dog" (which is subjective) and "I sent him the product, he didn't pay" (which is not subjective). One is personal, the other is business.

I hate to see anybody get ripped off when it comes to money owed them, but I can't get on board with bashing people because they didn't like the dog they bought. They still made the decision to buy. The person who doesn't get his money didn't make the decision to not get paid. I can see how some who get their mudslinging shut down can feel like it's "moderator's choice" but my criteria won't change, so whatevs.

All that being said, mybeagles is correct in that posting it here is pretty ineffective. Chip's had his post up for quite a while now and as far as I know, hasn't gotten his money. They don't care...or they're in a position where they're never gonna have the money...maybe even resold the product for money.

[Dave Swiger]

Bev, I agree you you 100%. Chip may not get his money, but If i know there is a problem. I won't lose money because Chip informed the board. Folks are informing about this beagler 08 or hillbillybeagler, I would not concider any dealings with him solely because he has not delt fair with others on this board.

Buyers remorse is one thing but out and out screwing is something else.

I feel better now, will not have to go to therapy this week.

Dave Swiger

[Bunnyblaster]

Beaglers are the most gullable because when your looking for a good dog, or some hunting equipment, you want it so bad that common sense gets put aside for the time being. It's happened to us all if you have been in the sport for long.

Mybeagles

I agree with that........been guilty of it myself a time or 2.

[Aaron Bartlett]

I agree with Bev. Its one thing to not get paid for a service or not get a service for payment but its totally different to complain about the quality of a dog. To many folks, because its more convienient for them, want to buy a dog sight unseen, expect a world beater only to get it home and find out its junk and then want to call foul! Everyones opinion of a dog is different. I have been guilty of buying a started or finished dog one time sight unseen but I never complained on the board or even to the person I bought it from when its wasnt what it was made to be. I learned a lesson and moved on. Just wont buy another dog from this person.

[bucks better beagles]

Thanks to all. I never "buy and cry". My concern was for the fraternity of beagle people on this site. If we inter-change with each other, I think we should be able to trust each other. There are many people I will deal with with absolute certainty that I will be treated fairly. Golden Acres (little plug here) is one of them. This man drove 100 miles in a snow storm to deliver a light to me at no extra charge for his effort.

I am not naive or ignorant to trading but I do believe we should strive for honesty as best we can. Therefore, I guess "buyer beware" is the best motto and the "Thin Line" should be avoided.

Perhaps someone could come up with a plan similar to a barter system that they have in the Middle East where a man in Texas could sell something to a man in Michigan and have a 3rd. party hold the money until satisfaction is achieved.

Bob

[Spruce Ridge Beagler]

I must say that exposure is a wonderful thing !!!!
I do agree that griping about a dogs quality is a waste of time but if someone is just flat out a crook or did not hold up their end of a deal why not share that with everyone else.
This website is informative and if keeping someone else from getting hooked is immoral then I guess that would make me immoral.

[johns03272008]

I got the best way to resolve it all DONT SEND THE PRODUCT UNTIL YOU RECIEVE YOUR MONEY if the person is serious about buying and dosent want to send the money first then there is the first red flag now what i do is i will check with people on the board that i know and see if they have delt with this person before and if not then i will ask where are they from and find someone from around that area and see if they know them if not then another red flag if the final thing comes down to only knowing his # and a P.O. BOX i aint doing it and as for buying a junk dog maybe you should find someone around him and have them go watch the dog run or go run with the dog yourself before you buy all this sight unseen sh%t aint flying in my book i will never buy a dog sight unseen you are just asking for trouble so as for all this stuff about not getting paid and not getting a A1 dog that was $250 guess what thats not a world beater dog price anyways!!!! Now this JMO but they are like AS#HOLES everyone has one and I myself have been ripped off on some collars but i was told by the guy he would refund if there was a problem and he only lives 15 mins. from me and i went to his house and he still refused so what can i do now like i said this is JMO im not trying to stir a pot or get into anything with anyone but that is how i would be dealing and how i think!!!!

[Pike Ridge Beagles]

No easy answer to this one but..... caveat emptor... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor.
I think dog deals should be left alone but if there is an outright crook out there ripping people offf, then my vote goes to exposing him/her so others are not burnt.
Concerning dog deals... go watch them run before you buy them, or know/trust your seller!
JMHO