Run to Catch

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mybeagles
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by mybeagles »

What seems strange is the claims that they catch rabbits and 'catch them the right way'. Yes, they did eat rabbits before domestication but they didnt run them in our prescribed textbook fashion. They cut, skirt, run silent, run them toward the pack mates.....in the same fashion a fox or coyote catches one. To suggest that a dog is running the line through the brush, woods etc, barking the whole way and just runs so fast that he overcomes the rabbit and sweeps him up is not plausable.

Like ohio said, if a dog gets a rabbit in a open field with no cover and sight chases him down thats possible, especially if the rabbit squats thinking its hid on a clump of grass. It happens when a rabbit in a check gets discovered. Its not possible in rabbit cover for a dog to run the line, tongue, and run a rabbit down.

Some of you were at least honest enough to say you dont know how the rabbits get caught, just that the dog comes out of the brush with it. That makes sense, but dont think your dog is just so fast that it was faster than the rabbit going through the brush! :ashamed:

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Bev
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by Bev »

As long as a rabbit stays up and running, a dog can hold the pace for hours. A rabbit cannot. I don't see how this is such a difficult concept to understand. I've seen the same dogs run for 8 hours pretty much without a break. Can't say I've ever seen the same rabbit do that. If he runs to his limit and doesn't go to hole, guess what...the dogs get him.

Who made this all about how a dog should or shouldn't catch a rabbit? And how does anyone KNOW how dogs ran rabbits and other animals before Purina fed them? Got any witnesses to prove those dogs of old were "cheating?" LOL. Cheating by what -- AKC Small Pack Options standards, or UKC's...?

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Joeyman
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by Joeyman »

around these parts there are so many rabbits the dogs are never on the same one. they bounce from rabbit to rabbit. They may start off on one run it for a bit enter a field area and switch rabbits.

I've seen it several times this season. On one run a rabbit come down a path I shot and killed it and guess what another down the same patch dogs behind not even 40seconds apart. I shot and killed that one two.

So my point is the dogs can run forever and ever after the rabbit you think its on when really they switched. I don't know if this relates to anything whitin this thread but it makes you think.

an old timer at a field trial once told me they did a study. They got 4 rabbits and painted colors on each rabbit. 1 Red 1 Yellow 1 Blue 1 white. The dogs stared on the Red rabbit and continued next thing you know the were running the Blue rabbit. The rabbits are working together guys. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!
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Hood Swamp
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by Hood Swamp »

I never said mine caught one by sheer speed. I didn't say they caught in 15 min. The runs where from 45min to 2 hours. I have stated what bloodlines I run. If you would notice these bloodlines you would know they are NOT known for skirting, swinging or the other crap you have described.

Ohlinger you are more than welcome to come down. I don't promise a catch, but I do promise that they will not throw it away.
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Alabama John
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by Alabama John »

Bev

We are not believed are we? I understand not believing you, but me?

Most folks posting on this 'run ot catch" topic have obviously not had, nor seen a fast running the track beagle. Since theirs can't do it, they conclude it can't be done. Doesn't take a pack to catch one either. Many times a pack hinders a real catching dog until it gets out front. I've nevr seen a brag catch dog that didn't lead the pack.

The dogs, singularly or as a pack that catch regularly can and do run the rabbit down and catch it from behind, believe it or not.

A fast wild dog cannot catch one, too many screwups to let the rabbit get away. It takes one that runs fast speed, heads up, right on the track with no loses, to run one down.

Don't compare catch dogs with your slow dog packs that never catch a rabbit unless its trapped, cornered, or injured in some way. We don't count that as catching one. Heck a poodle or peek a poo could catch one like your dogs are doing according to your tales.

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Alabama John
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by Alabama John »

Joey,

Had a rabbit run for hours with a pack after it that usually caught in 30 minutes or so. Wondered how it was doing it?

We searched around we found a hollow log laying on the ground and after about one or two rounds the rabbit ran in the log and out the other end quickly ran out another rabbit. Come to find out, there were 4 in there lining up in that log taking turns. Rabbits are pretty smart aren't they!

RDN61
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by RDN61 »

Well I have been following this thread with interest, Because in 1990 I got a pup from a friend of mine she was about 6months old when she started. I ran that hound nearly every day well when she was about 3yrs. old, now and then, not every time out she would bring me a rabbit. I will assure you I spent many hours in a tree at times watching her run and she did not skirt or cheat in any way. this would usually be after about an hour of running. I didn't see her catch them but she was not a swinger! I have 4 decent bred hounds in my yard now and I would give them all to have her one more time! She was probably a med. fast speed hound. I haven't had a dog catch a rabbit since she died. but I don't get to run as much either.

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Re: Run to Catch

Post by ricky murphy »

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RiverBottom
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by RiverBottom »

Most beaglers in this country think of rabbit hunting as shooting rabbits in front of the dogs. Asking some of you to try to catch rabbits instead of shooting them is like asking a democrat to cut taxes, it will never sink in. In England, Ireland, and France, shooting a rabbit in front of the hounds would be like poaching deer at night with a spotlight. They believe the only way a hare should die while hunting is when the hounds run it down and catch it fairly. "Chopping" rabbits, like Ohlinger described so well, will get a hound culled very quickly over there.

There are some good books on hunting with hounds written by people who live in places where hound hunting is much older than the USA. Here's a good one you can read for free on Google: http://books.google.com/books?id=22UCAA ... q=&f=false
It is mostly about fox hunting but has a whole chapter on hare hunting. Here's a few highlights:

"There is no sport in shooting a hare—or I might say more than one—and no skill is required"

"My argument is that if twelve-inch beagles can kill a hare in reasonable time, it is manifestly unfair to pursue her with a hound nearly twice the size. A good pack of harriers over eighteen inches, that have been carefully bred, ought never to miss killing their brace of hares every day they go out, but they must not string, and the proverbial sheet should always cover them. A scratch pack that have been collected from the rubbish of other kennels may occasionally chop a hare, but they will very seldom hunt her to death."

"When it is almost a certainty that hounds will have one kill or more each day they hunt, it is impossible to feel that keenness for blood which is the spirit of hunting. No one who is really fond of hounds will rest content until he has his pack almost perfect, and I say that a perfect pack of harriers should kill every hare they find, so that a man after years of trouble and labour in breeding to a certain perfection, sees all his toil wasted in trying to accomplish an end which brings no satisfaction when attained."

"I do not wish to dogmatise or lay down the law, but in my opinion the only sporting way of hunting the hare is to follow her on foot—that is, in a moderately level country and with a fair amount of grass. Then with a pack of hounds not exceeding fourteen inches, the odds are about the same as in fox-hunting—three to one on the hare."

"Condition is of course the most important thing with small beagles, and does not always get the attention it deserves from young masters. I must refer you to what I have already written on the subject in the chapter dealing with the foxhound, and remind you that if you wish your beagles to run well, they must be fit. When you see a hare get up in front of a small pack of beagles and leave them behind at every stride, the idea of them catching her seems absurd. The only chance they have of succeeding is by being in such hard condition that they wear the hare down, and by having such good noses that they practically never stop. A slow hound that is always on the line gives a hare very little time to get her wind, and if you can only keep her going, you will soon tire her out."

"The most frequent cause of failure in the pursuit of a hare is changing. Just when the one you are hunting is getting tired, up jumps another fresh from her form, and away go the pack in full view. There is very little hope of stopping them, and when you do succeed the chances are you will not be able to recover your original quarry, either that the lapse of time has allowed the scent to disappear or puss stole away when her enemies' backs were turned."

"My little pack are only twelve and a half inches, but they have this season killed thirteen brace of hares out of fifty hunting days; so that when I plead for small hounds in a grass country, you will see that I do not ask you to undertake an impossible task."

John Otho Paget
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mybeagles
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by mybeagles »

The race is controled by the rabbit not the dogs. There are certainly dogs that speed things up and ones that slow things down, but its still determined by the rabbit. You get a rabbit that doesnt want to run, you wont have much of a race. You get a snowshoe that wants to run, they can string your dogs out for miles.

More times than not when the rabbit comes through, he will stop, stand up on two legs and look around for the dogs, lick the snow off his paws, and hop away.

A snowshoe hare can take 12-15 foot strides and can run out of a section in 1/10 the time it would take a hound.

There are 3 types of rabbits that Ive observed......Runners, squatters, and holers. Dog's will never be within 50 feet of a good runner, they will constanltly be rejumping and in close proximity to a sqatter if they run cleanly, and a holer is self explanatory.

I willingly give up and agree to disagree. If you have dogs that catch rabbits with great frequency, good for you. Im just supprised with as many trials as I have judged and the variety of dogs I have watched run that Ive never seen dogs running down rabbits and snatching them up. Some of you have Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more years of living than I have though, so maybe when my eye sight, memory and hearing get that bad my dogs will start catching more...... :biggrin: :biggrin:

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Re: Run to Catch

Post by chapkosbeagles »

[

There are 3 types of rabbits that Ive observed......Runners, squatters, and holers. Dog's will never be within 50 feet of a good runner, they will constanltly be rejumping and in close proximity to a sqatter if they run cleanly, and a holer is self explanatory.

well said i know my must catch the squatters you will get a lot of break downs because he keeps sitting. once the big guy gets his sight race he is capable of bringing it out in his mouth. the real good runners get cought if they stay up long enough. i have watched my pack run till the rabbit froze up thats dinner

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Bev
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by Bev »

Thank you, Riverbottom. That's a good article. :cool:

bluemouse
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by bluemouse »

I have no doubt that some have dogs that have caught rabbits in the right conditions. When i was young I had a basset hound that caught more rabbits than any beagle I ever had, and believe me she was not the fat over wieght hound that most think of when they think of basset hound. She was true to the line and had less checks than most beagles. But with that being said the terrain I ran in back then was broom straw fields with very little cover and briars. Also back then the predator pressurer was less. I have seen you guys home movies of hounds running and most of them are in pretty open terrain, I am not saying anything negative here about your dogs are the grounds that you hunt, sometimes I wish I had a place like that to hunt, but I don't all I have is wall to wall briars and water to run in. After reading this post some have admitted that their hounds catch the rabbit after it has been shot at, and more that likely had a few pellets in them. I myself enjoy my hounds for the potlicking heathens they are, because they can circle a rabbit and run the the nasties briars around, if they ran full bore through this stuff they would not have any hair left, and most of their skin would be gone also. I do not have a beagle that can shoot or read but I do have a fishing beagle, all you have to do is catch a fish and throw it up on the bank and she will put them in a pile for ya. I will still wear a dress if you come here and catch one he-he, and if you can not stay in the bushes and bleed with your hounds you get the dress-- house rules.

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Re: Run to Catch

Post by ohlinger »

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Last edited by ohlinger on Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Run to Catch

Post by ricky murphy »

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