Speed

[Ron Conroe]

thall
im not running down the mid-west down, matter of fact i have done well in it. but i think they are getting carried away with the speed and the line control is not that great, it just depends on who you run under any more. there is alot of good judges out there, but there are some that should not be there. jmo

[Ron Conroe]

thall
forgot to ask, how is that a unfair statement, you said you seen our winners pack run and they could not circle a rabbit. i think that is what i stated.

[THALL]

I'm just saying most winners' packs I've seen could scald a rabbit. I have witnessed mid-west judges pick up ruff dogs as quick as it took the guy to unload the dog. I went and judged a UGBF trial last month. They are just as ruff, just at a slower speed. I yankedup some ruff, slow dogs up there, but i also seen some dogs that were clean and could run a rabbit. I see very little difference other than speed. I think most guys in the Mid-West like a fast, clean dog.

[WELLS WOODS]

Ron, I have to disagree with your statement about Mid-West winners packs. I can only count on one hand the "bad" winners packs I have seen over the years. I know your a good man & have had some great dogs, but I'm sorry ;that statement really shocks me coming from you. Greg Wells

By the way, Keystone, I don't think the Mid-West is dropping . There are more Mid-West clubs today than there has ever been. The entries are smaller than they used to be because of the number of clubs & the fact that now clubs can hold 2 licensed trials per year instead of one. I'll say this with confidence also: the hardest thing to do in beagling is to finish a hound as an AKC field champion in the Mid-West Association because of the level of competition.

[Ron Conroe]

greg
the trial numbers have droped in the last couple of years, and its not all because of the economy. i talk to alot of people and they say the same thing im saying, they just don't get on here and say it because they think it's gonna hurt them at the trials, and i do disagree with you on them winners pack greg.SORRY

[WELLS WOODS]

How many trials have you been to in the last two years? There are a lot of hard working judges out there today & to make a blanket statement about thier efforts all over the Mid-West is a shame. I never knew you thought this way about the association & our judges. Guess you learn something new everyday.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

No org is without faults, the akc seems to be the lesser of the evils even though i seen some kick ass winners packs, thats not to say there is not questionable judging at times.It come with it.I wish the midwest would switch judges up a little more but thats life .I am sure there is a reason behing it but i just dont ask. To me speed is great if they can put it between there legs and hold it, I have never had the chance to large pack run, i would like too. The ugbf i know nothing about they seem to hold pretty high rankings, since you can walk with dogs it seems like it would be hard to cheat,jmho.

[Ohiohntr]

No org is without faults, the akc seems to be the lesser of the evils even though i seen some kick ass winners packs, thats not to say there is not questionable judging at times.It come with it.I wish the midwest would switch judges up a little more but thats life .I am sure there is a reason behing it but i just dont ask. To me speed is great if they can put it between there legs and hold it, I have never had the chance to large pack run, i would like too. The ugbf i know nothing about they seem to hold pretty high rankings, since you can walk with dogs it seems like it would be hard to cheat,jmho.

I can give some input to your first part about not switching up judges....I have put this on here before but as fts I usually make 30-40 phone calls to try and get different judges to "mix it up"....this is all to only get 8 able and willing judges. The 8 who would do it are pretty much part of the 10-20 judges who you normally see listed. What is a fts to do when you have to get judges but the list gets slimmer by the year because most guys are aging/cutting back and very few new guys who can run with the dogs are getting licenced to judge?

I feel another reason the judging is slim is because the money clubs are able to pay the judges does not justify a person driving two states away...especially if he doesn't have a dog worthy enough to enter and if he has dogs worthy enough to enter then it limits what class they are willing to judge. Although some do it without regard for the money, but only because they can either afford it or have a true love for the sport. I did some quick math for a guy who was questioning judging earlier this year and I would feel safe to say it COSTS an out of state judge on the average at least $100-$200 per trial and that is if the club is paying you $100 (some clubs are reducing that down to $50). It makes rather tough to get guys who want to judge dogs and take the critisism when it is costing them money to help you out....when you take a few hundred out of your families money to help a club and then several weeks after the trial a gallery expert jumps on the internet and tells the world how bad of a job you did, it just doesn't seem worth it anymore.

Just my .02

[WELLS WOODS]

The worst feeling in life is to be falsely accused. Noone is falsley accused more than a field trial judge. I remember the first trial that I judged. I ran my butt off, pack after pack, making sure I could make good decisions and find the best dogs in my honest opinion. I really thought I would be greeted with praise and gratitude after the trial for all of my heroic efforts to put together an awesome winners pack and finding the finest rabbit hound in the crowd that day. To my surprise, my "friends " were now my enemies, strangers that I'd never met called me a crook & the guy that won(who I had never met) was suddenly a guy that had slipped me some cash before the trial. I went from being proud of myself for giving everyone & thier dog thier money's worth to a young, hurt beagler who was disgusted at how cruel people could be over losing a beagle trial. I thought to myself," Didn't they see me out there running my guts out?" "Didn't they see that outstanding pack & how the winner worked out those tough checks?" I soon realized, no matter how good of a job you do , only one person is going to be happy & those that couldn't handle losing very well were going to say cruel things about you. I didn't quit though. My skin got thick. I judged for the better of the breed & the only person I had to satisfy was myself & knowing that I did my best was all that mattered to me. Why can't we find good, young judges these days? Because few care enough about the beagle to take the critisism that goes along with being a judge. Who's going to encourage a young judge? Who's going to swallow thier pride & say "thanks for judging" after being picked up? Who's going to give a man the benefit of the doubt instead of questioning his honesty? Not many beaglers that I've seen these days.

[Mapel Valley Kennels LLC.]

Its one thing to stay at the truck and call the score, its another to give 110% and run for hours on end to try and bring back the best dog that day. Win lose or draw judging is a great way to evaluate the pack, its a hard thankless job.To say the least.

[Goforth]

Judging a Midwest field trial is one of the hardest things I have done.

[Ohiohntr]

The worst feeling in life is to be falsely accused. Noone is falsley accused more than a field trial judge. I remember the first trial that I judged. I ran my butt off, pack after pack, making sure I could make good decisions and find the best dogs in my honest opinion. I really thought I would be greeted with praise and gratitude after the trial for all of my heroic efforts to put together an awesome winners pack and finding the finest rabbit hound in the crowd that day. To my surprise, my "friends " were now my enemies, strangers that I'd never met called me a crook & the guy that won(who I had never met) was suddenly a guy that had slipped me some cash before the trial. I went from being proud of myself for giving everyone & thier dog thier money's worth to a young, hurt beagler who was disgusted at how cruel people could be over losing a beagle trial. I thought to myself," Didn't they see me out there running my guts out?" "Didn't they see that outstanding pack & how the winner worked out those tough checks?" I soon realized, no matter how good of a job you do , only one person is going to be happy & those that couldn't handle losing very well were going to say cruel things about you. I didn't quit though. My skin got thick. I judged for the better of the breed & the only person I had to satisfy was myself & knowing that I did my best was all that mattered to me. Why can't we find good, young judges these days? Because few care enough about the beagle to take the critisism that goes along with being a judge. Who's going to encourage a young judge? Who's going to swallow thier pride & say "thanks for judging" after being picked up? Who's going to give a man the benefit of the doubt instead of questioning his honesty? Not many beaglers that I've seen these days.

One of the best posts I have seen on this board....

[jmoore2974]

Thanx Wells Woods for sharin your experience and not quiting.

[Ron Conroe]

greg
you are one of the best judges out there and one of the most honest ones.and there is a lot more. i will name a few, earl & jamie rice, tony eyer, rob fuller, gabe stockton,don smith, thats just a few and i know there is alot more, but there are some bad ones to you know it and i know it. im sorry i offended you greg, i like the mid-west, i like the guys that go to the trials, but imo they are getting carried away with the speed thing. and no i have not seen every winners pack run, but im talking about the ones i have seen. i have been to alot of trials that you was not there, you have been to alot of trials that i was'nt there.

[WELLS WOODS]

Thanks Ron, I don't judge anymore; getting to old & broken down. It seems like yesterday that I was just getting into trialing, but it has been nearly 20 years ago. You & I both know there are good judges out there; you named a few & I can tell you from experience, it is very discouraging when you see someone on the internet running down the sport that you have invested so much time and effort to try to improve. Maybe you should contact some of your better judges up that way & see if they could help some of the new ones that you think are focusing too much on speed. I know at the last trial I attended, Mid-Ky, the judges were picking up dogs for swinging, overrunning & getting the front the wrong way. I was very pleased with the running in the winners pack; we ran the last rabbit for over an hour with very few long checks. We couldn't have asked for more out of the hounds.