Line Breeding ????

[mybeagles]

Everyone speaks of selection being the key, and I dont disagree with that. The problem I see is NO ONE has been able to select the right ones to withstand the rigors of inbreeding.

Ive owned, judged, bred, and been around enough dogs the last 25 years to realize NO one is consistantly producing a dominant line of inbred dogs.

The great dogs that I have had the pleasure to see were the result of outcrossing or very loose linebreeding.

Lets have a role call for all the inbreeders that currently posess a dominant line of hounds that is producing great hounds. I can think of a few kennels that consistantly produce dominant dogs by outcrossing, loose linebreeding, and heavy culling, but I dont know of a single kennel that heavily inbreeds that is consistantly producing anything that dominates.

Little Black book,

Are you able to select the right hounds to effectively inbreed your line of dogs? Do they compete in competition (AKC, NKC) or are they hounds that just make you real happy?

Also, what other kennels are you familiar with that consitently inbreed and produce dominant hounds?

Mybeagles

[Jeremy Mapes]

I don't know about inbreeding, but do know of a couple that linebreed and are very successful. I would say that Branko's kennel is doing a pretty good job. Everything he owns is linebred on Anna's Ann. Also Dale Prunty has good success linebreeding his White River line of dogs, even though some good out crosses have been made, he still line breeds his hounds and they have proven themselves over and over again in the UKC trial world. Again these aren't inbred lines, just linebred.

[Ron Conroe]

dave
i like how everybody on here is a expert on the gene pool. that is why their is so many bow legged, cross eyed, short eared, flat footed beagles out there. just think of what the world would look like if everything would inbreed.

[Alabama John]

Travis,

In keeping with your subject, let me bring attention to a term I haven't seen used on your question that us old timers seek in our animals and used in humans too, but here only applying to breeding dogs, and in my case Beagles and that is "HYBRID VIGOR". Look it up also under Heterosis in humans. Also under Anthropology.

How do you breed to get it? Most beaglers are doing it whether you realize it or not and like what it does for your dogs reproducing ability, looks, performance and health.

Keep thinking and an open mind. Good posts here!

[S.R.Patch]

Inbreeding or line-breeding are merely tools of the breeder to "set" traits or propagate qualities of a great individual hound.

Inbreeding is the way to create your own line of hounds, example... some have crossed the patch on the northway hound, from these offspring, the best are inbred to "set" the desired qualities that were bred for and exhibited in the litters. As the line develops, backcrossing or linebreeding back on either side can be used to great individuals of that line where weaknesses may develop in your own.

Line/inbreeding does not produce superior hounds in and of itself, but are tools or building blocks to get you there with some design and consistency.

Some hounds cannot be bred close for they carry recessive traits that when matched up with others of their same mix, render the offspring useless in some form or shape for the purpose.

A "nic" of good quality is what we're after whether inbreeding/linebreeding or outcrossing, and hopefully the ability or prepotency to pass it on as dominant in future offspring.

The argument against line/inbreeding is like saying, "I don't need nails, hammer or binding material to build a house...

[Buckeye Bob]

Inbreeding or line-breeding are merely tools of the breeder to "set" traits or propagate qualities of a great individual hound.

Inbreeding is the way to create your own line of hounds, example... some have crossed the patch on the northway hound, from these offspring, the best are inbred to "set" the desired qualities that were bred for and exhibited in the litters. As the line develops, backcrossing or linebreeding back on either side can be used to great individuals of that line where weaknesses may develop in your own.

Line/inbreeding does not produce superior hounds in and of itself, but are tools or building blocks to get you there with some design and consistency.

Some hounds cannot be bred close for they carry recessive traits that when matched up with others of their same mix, render the offspring useless in some form or shape for the purpose.

A "nic" of good quality is what we're after whether inbreeding/linebreeding or outcrossing, and hopefully the ability or prepotency to pass it on as dominant in future offspring.

The argument against line/inbreeding is like saying, "I don't need nails, hammer or binding material to build a house...

What he said.

[RiverBottom]

Good post Patch. I agree with everything, except...

The argument against line/inbreeding is like saying, "I don't need nails, hammer or binding material to build a house.

I think it would be more accurate to say "The argument against line/inbreeding is like saying, I don't need a shock collar to train beagles"

By the way Patch, how did the English Masters do it?

Myself, I use linebreeding and shock collars, but I often wonder if the easiest way is the best way?

[mybeagles]

It seems to me if you were going to inbreed it would need to be with TWO very superior hounds. Can anyone give testimony of two IFC's being closely inbred and what they produced.

Its been stated, and I agree, the first generation of inbred hounds doesnt produce superior hounds, but what hounds out there that made a great name for themselves as PRODUCERS were the result of close inbreeding?

Is it ethical to inbreed and sell the pups?

Some of the better producing kennels in the country are able to outcross and loose linebreed and consistently produce superior hounds, do you suppose that some of these kennels inbreed behind the scenes and just dont advertise it?

Mybeagles

[S.R.Patch]

Hello Tom,
Randall said, what is intolerable to us in hounds is best not made natural through their breeding... ... again, there's that pesky selection part as resulted from the genetic tendencies.

The English have method and realize the finest metals require time and commitment, a good man can make a living there as a Professional Kennel Man. Puppy Walkers are use so each pup or pair get the socialization and attention they need to develop and become well rounded individuals. The whole process takes on average 2 years for a pup to go from a young entry - to a pack member, after they are returned to Kennel at 9-12 months of age. This is hardly the "I want it all now" mannerism, most of our beagle fraternity has evolved into for selection of a pack.

One affliction I've caught myself doing was coined from the Field Trial bugs, "negative judging", looking more for mistakes than paying attention to the good and what succeeded.

Mybeagles,
The first hound to come to mind from your questions was Gray's Linesman.

I don't think there's any "secretive" inbreeding of the successful kennels, but rather, either by luck or study of pedigree, they found a "nic" between hounds from families that blend well.

[Newt]

Also, what other kennels are you familiar with that consitently inbreed and produce dominant hounds?
Mybeagles

If winning Field Trials is your criteria for "success", I would submit George Nixon and his Pearson Creek beagles.

Of course fads change and what is great today will be junk in a few years.