Are Beagles getting better over time, or worse or same?

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

Athletes today are far superior in every sport than they were of yesteryear and are bigger faster stronger etc.. because of knowledge, better nutrition, modern medicine.. etc/


SOOOO , Are dogs in general better than they were 100 years ago you think or even 50 or 30 from what you can see or tell? Is the breed running rabbits better or worse?

Why do you think that is??

Just a conversation piece

[Bunnyblaster]

I would certainly like to think that with the added technology and other information we have available to us nowadays for things like nutrition that our hounds would be more physically capable of performing at a higher level than they used to. But I'd be willing to bet you'll find a few more experienced people on here that may disagree with that and say that the hounds of before were tougher than the ones we have now. I guess I don't know for sure. I obviously don't have enough experience under my belt to make a very informed statement about it. All I really have to go on are the hounds I've owned and ran for the last 5-6 years. I would think at the very least with the tools we have available to us now that we should be more effective and efficient at starting and training our hounds. But there is no substitute for time in the woods and while plenty of guys will put hours and hours on their dogs I also think there are more people nowadays that want instant gratification and don't give their dogs enough time in the woods. And along with that is today's busier schedule limiting time in the woods.

Good question.

[bluemouse]

Yester years people depended on there hounds for food, today its for fun and relaxation. I feed mine because they do their job and hate a rabbit. I turned mine out last evening about six oclock and stood with two old men from the club and they were giggling like school girls and saying listen to that music. It made me proud. They left about seven thirty and I stayed and listen to them put it on that rabbit untill 9:30. I called them out and loaded the heathens in the box, and me and SIS got in the front of the truck and started for home she lay her head on my lap, ears dripping with blood but she was happy just like me.

[chapkosbeagles]

i think the trials are promoting hot nosed tight mouth dogs

[T LEE]

I've seen an inprovement in quailty of dogs over the past several years. In the mid-90s when I first started trialing , in a 28 dog hunt there may have been 4 dogs with a real shot of winning the hunt. I was at a trial last year that I had ran with and against several of the dogs there. In the Open class I counted 9 dogs that only needed a first to Champion out and had all their points already . There were 5 other's with a win and only needed points.

Some may Not understand this comment but the days of taking JUST a solid rabbit dog to a trail and winning are about over. The talent level is at a point that it takes a very special dog to come out on top.JMO

[MasonsBeagles]

I've seen an inprovement in quailty of dogs over the past several years. In the mid-90s when I first started trialing , in a 28 dog hunt there may have been 4 dogs with a real shot of winning the hunt. I was at a trial last year that I had ran with and against several of the dogs there. In the Open class I counted 9 dogs that only needed a first to Champion out and had all their points aready . There were 5 other's with a win and only needed points.

Some may Not understand this comment but the days of taking JUST a solid rabbit dog to a trail and winning are about over. The talent level is at a point that it takes a very special dog to come out on top.JMO

I had another very respected Houndsman tell me the exact same thing not long ago. He said twenty years ago there would be one or two dogs that would be in the money everytime they were dropped and now when you go there are at least a dozen that can take home the hardware on any given Saturday.

[bill huttozac]

Just my opinion - Bluemouse has a good grasp on this subject when he stated that yesterday's hounds were kept to help gather food. Therefore, they were given more time in the field and with that, became better "gun dogs". Granted, style was not that important but hunt, jump and bringing the bunny to the gun were top priorities. A dog, regardless of how well it is bred or how good it's ancestors are or were, is only as good as the experience that it has gained.
Experience is something that most Beaglers today cannot give their dogs enough of for a multitude of reasons, i. e. work schedules, dogs penned rather than being able to hunt as they like, diminishing rabbit habitat and population.

As a youngster, we hunted rabbits daily from Fall to Spring. Living in a rather rural area where neighbors were row crop farmers, habitat was plentiful and so were the bunnies. No one cared if you hunted on their property, just do not damage the fences and close the gates behind you. Often, they would go along with you just to watch and listen to the hounds at work. Everyone let their chickens and Geese roam free and hawks, Owls, Fox, Raccoon, Opossums and snakes were killed on sight. Likewise, dogs that killed chickens or chased livestock "met their maker" in short order. More often than not, because our dogs ran free, by the time morning farm chores were finished, the dogs were already chasing a rabbit so it was only a matter of getting the old single barrel 12 gauge and join the dogs. Since food was the objective, for fun, the hunt would last most of the day with only a couple of rabbits killed, meat for a single day. No freezers in those days which prevented overkill.

In reflecting on those days, I do not remember anyone owning a registered Beagle. There were some very good grade Beagles and Beagle crossed with Red bone Coon hounds used as rabbit dogs. Only the better dogs were kept because their food was limited for the most part to table scraps and meat scraps from the Slaughter House.

I am not sold on the idea that pedigrees, breeding, medication, care, conformation or quality of feed improve the Beagles of today. These things do contribute to the "cosmetics" of the animal. Rabbit tracks, rabbit tracks and more rabbit tracks is the thing that makes the hound. Like any scent dog, a Beagle can only be judged by how consistently it produces the game.

Back to the question presented by MO.beagler5000. For myself, today's Beagle is certainly much more pleasing to the eye that those of 50 to 60 years ago but, are they better rabbit dogs? Absolutely not!!! This is not the fault of the breed but the lack of the opportunity given to developing their potential due to less time pounding a rabbit and style being a priority over production.

From my comments, one can easily tell my prospective of this subject is from that of a Runner/Gunner.

[T LEE]

My Father had Beagles back in the 1940s and 1950s. They had alot more rabbits in NC to run back then. I remember him telling me they would kill 30 rabbits before lunch time. They ate what they killed and enjoyed hearing the dogs run. Nearly every growed up ditch bank held several rabbits. About any brush pile that was kicked held a rabbit.

Good times but back then a rabbit hunter wasn't as "picky" on what they kept to run a rabbit. Many faults that todays beagler may Not put up with was accepted back then. Example....I've heard my Father say "When they got on Fox , we just kept hunting and they would come back after a bit". "Ol' Joe would cold trail a rabbit for 20 mins. sometimes before he would jump him up" ." Star would jump a rabbit but would Not run with the pack."

Maybe it's just me but I look for a little more in a dog than Just being able to take a Rabbit over it.

[Bunnyblaster]

I think that was the point of Bill's story.

If you could describe what the "more" is that you look for in your beagles and does that make them a better beagle than the ones from the old days?

Some of this can even go back to personal preference. If we're strictly talking about beagles doing what they were born to do then does it really matter how pretty they look doing it? If a rough dog brings the rabbit back around just as consistently and quickly as a clean dog then does it really matter other than what we each of us like to see individually out of our dogs?..........form over function??

I remember last summer I had a couple of my dogs out behind the house and I had my 7 year old son with me. I remember complaining about how the dog was doing this and doing that while it was running the rabbit...and to be honest the dog was doing a good job. My son looked at me and said "Dad, why does it matter to you how he runs the rabbit as long as he runs the rabbit for you?". It was at that moment I realized that I was so busy focusing on how my dog ran the line, worked a check, worked the brush, etc that I had actually started to lose sight of why I got into beagling in the first place............because of the dogs. Now don't get me wrong there are certain things a dog needs to do properly in order to efficiently do it's job. But the one thing my kid reminded me of was how much I forgot I just enjoyed watching the dogs have fun doing what they love to do.

And remember, this question is just as loaded as when people ask what style dog is best? It's all in what we like personally.

[Mo. Beagler 5000]

I asked this question because my grandma and her brothers ran beagles and bred them heavily in the 1930's and 40's. She said they had ugly dogs but they culled HARD... The breed three to four litters a year and shot the ones who did not perform. If a dog wasn't started and showing progress by a few months of age then it ended up getting the hatchet to the head because bullets were expensive... She said the dogs ran free and if they hung around the house to long thats when they culling began...

She said they would have rabbit drives and get hunters together and kill literally 70 80 rabbits in a weekend but that there were more rabbits... So if they culled that hard and ran the dogs 6 days a week and didnt care about looks then its hard to imagine them dogs being worse than what we have now... It seems today non hunters breed beagles and then there is the show people and the trial people and it seems one or two traits are what people look for... I wonder if thats hurting the population or not..

and as for the food thing.. They fed raw meat and dead animals and what the dogs could catch... they didnt really have to much dog food that she remembered so they lived naturally but she did say they were full of worms and died a lot...

[T LEE]

I had a dog named Fred ( Names may be changed to avoid futher embarrassment ). Fred was a solid rabbit dog that a man could take out and kill rabbits over. I entered Fred in his first trail and won the first two rounds. I was thinking that there is Nothing to this and Fred was just a Beast. In the Final round .....Fred was not only out checked 9 to 1 but out classed so bad that I didn't even need the score card read to me. Fred had his a$$ handed to him. About any dog can run a rabbit but a dog that can truly dominate and take control of a pack is a special find.

That would be the "More" that I'm refering to.

[chapkosbeagles]

go to beagles for sale online

go to the trading post

i bet out of the five pages and hundreds of dogs for sale you might find 20 dogs that can really run a rabbit back to the gun on a winter day in michigan

with this said do you really think the quility is getting any better if i was a betting man i bet the percentage of what i call a cull dog is higher now than it ever was. my GRANDPA USED TO GO TO THE POUND AND GET BETTER DOGS THAN WHAT MOST ON HERE SELL FOR 200 OR BETTER.

THE ONLY POINT YOU GUYS HAVE MADE TO ME IS THAT THE TRIALS ARE GETTING MORE COMPETITIVE

[Dr. Chris]

Athletes today are far superior in every sport than they were of yesteryear and are bigger faster stronger etc.. because of knowledge, better nutrition, modern medicine.. etc/


SOOOO , Are dogs in general better than they were 100 years ago you think or even 50 or 30 from what you can see or tell? Is the breed running rabbits better or worse?

Why do you think that is??

Just a conversation piece

I think it depends on what you’re talking about. If you took the best 5 dogs from different eras and had them all in a trial… who knows. But I don’t think it is so much an “athletic” thing with hunting dogs as much as it is a “brain and heart” and natural instinct thing.

But by sure numbers and %’s, I believe the hounds of yesteryear would have it.

You had fewer breeders, and a few select breeders that really knew what they were doing that everybody bought dogs from. Now, everybody are “breeders”. In the early 90’s when ARHA really started growing, the UKC beagle field trials started growing, the AKC became open to different formats and that’s not including the different formats in Canada….. there was an explosion of “beagle breeding” and beagle breeders.

You may see more “better” dogs because of this, but what you don’t see is the quadruple amount of culls because of this. So by %’s I would say as a whole the dogs from years ago were better. The actual number of above average dogs produced compared to culls being produced is not even comparable, between today’s dogs compared to 50 years ago simply because of the amount of beagles being born today and the experienced or lack of experience of the breeders breeding them. They also actually “culled” back then instead of passing them on to make a buck.

But, the best 5 dogs from different eras and having them all in a trial would be interesting.

[BCBeagles]

Compare in athletes. Michael Jordan vs. Kobe Bryant, Joe Montana vs. Tom Brady, Dick Butkus vs Ray Lewis, Nolan Ryan vs Tim Lincecum. They would split it down the middle of who beat who. Greats are greats no matter the era, IMO, same with hounds. What really are the "Greats" as we tag them maybe too much??

[gwyoung]

MO.Beagler. Good question. but a good answer may be harder to come by, Like everything else Good and Better is subject to opinion. There have been some good comments to your question. ( No pun intended) If you are asking if todays dogs are better at finding the game and bringing it to the gun regardless of what it looks like ( Meat Hounds) than I would say that hounds of yesteryear were on the average better, Thats what meat hound meant , you came home with the Meat, no-one would feed a hound that didn't produce meat for the table ,to them it was a stupid thing to do.( see some of the other comments about exposure) If on the other hand you like the dog with a real Real low tail swing and the dogs Shaking and Shimmering all over, as they attempt to move the track then today's dogs are far better! ( I am not talking about Traditional Brace either)If you like the type of dog that makes easy look hard " but is never out of place" and you think they ought to stay in a line and never attempt to pass , Then you are living in the right time, My Friend! I don't like a super fast hound , generally, but for goodness sake, make him run!