RE : CHECK PATCH PEDIGREE'S

[LR Patch]

I think it has & will hurt us as patch breeders & owners to a point. I've not personally been hurt in the way of hounds but I don't raise and sell many or offer to sell many , and good hounds with the correct info behind them will speak for itself , most all mine are DNA verified so that is a good thing I believe . On a personal level it has effected me deeply as well as others I'm sure .

Now Charles here's where I'll agree to disagree with some of what your thinking :

I know Swampman says the signature on the litter app. is not his and AKC has compared the sig. to other sigs. of his and they do not match.

Agree : Rowdy is a good man , I've never been face to face with him but I've spoke with him and I truely believe he's a true Patch man & wants only good things & the betterment of the Patchs , he said he did not sign the litter app. papers and that I believe .

I think there are people who know who the real sire is, it's just not weighed on them enough yet to come out with the truth.

Disagree : This statment may or may not be true . That's a tuff one . In my way of thinking , if I was planning on robbing the 1st National Bank down on Main St. I would not be telling my hunting buddies that I was planning on robbing the bank . Don't believe I'd involve anyone , loose lips sink ships ; ) .

I truely hope AKC gets to the bottom of this , resolve is surely needed on this issue . Would have thought something could have been figured out by now .
My statements are not meant to be a personal attack on / towards anyone , just thinking out-loud . Myself as other want to know the outcome in the event that we've got wrongs to be made right .

[lowell robertson]

Randy, I agree. My problem is after knowing someone for a good while and they have been above board and straight shooting with me and told me the truth, then someone from up north that I have never seen or met comes along and questions my intergity and the intergity of my hounds pedigrees does not set well with me. I think we should all be willing to abide with AKC's findings and rulings and let it alone.

[S.R.Patch]

I think it was said there was an email sent that said the bitch was delivered by a couple of fellows and they said she was bred when delivered. I think there are still a couple fellows around who know the story.

Swampman was not making a personal attack, he was merely stating the pedigree on a hound was not correct because he owned the presumed stud and that hound had never been bred to the proposed bitch.
The pedigree lady called me one time and she was doing some research and found Akc had one of my English hounds listed as being his own grandpa, well it was a mistake and I called Akc and told them and they said they would fix the pedigree with the correct info on the hound. No one was pointing fingers, it was more important that the record was set straight and the correct names were in place. That's all this is about, getting the info straightened out to be correct on record. I was glad the lady called and had caught the mistake, hard tell'n how long it would have been for me to have noticed it.
It doesn't make the hounds involved any less of a rabbit dog, we just need the correct names in place.

What would you do if you sent a bitch to be bred and she came back in whelp but later the stud owner said she had never arrived at his place? Would you expect the stud owner to go ahead and let you register the litter under his studs number? This is why I see swampman's objection to the pedigree.

[LR Patch]

Don't think this was being ask to me , here's MHO

What would you do if you sent a bitch to be bred and she came back in whelp but later the stud owner said she had never arrived at his place? Would you expect the stud owner to go ahead and let you register the litter under his studs number? This is why I see swampman's objection to the pedigree.

I would most likely react just as he did , but remember I do not know all what he did , but to say that Spot did not breed Frosty & he did not sign the papers is well with-in his rights and is exactly what he should of done , I would add if I were him , and these things just said I would as well throw a bucking fit at AKC to pinch the heads-off those that need it .

[S.R.Patch]

Disagree : This statment may or may not be true . That's a tuff one . In my way of thinking , if I was planning on robbing the 1st National Bank down on Main St. I would not be telling my hunting buddies that I was planning on robbing the bank . Don't believe I'd involve anyone , loose lips sink ships ; )

What if it was not planned, it just happened? What if two hounds were at a trial and got locked up?
What if one hound was Akc registered and the other was not Akc but Arha..., but what if he had a brother hound or relation that was Akc and the Akc number was known on this hound?
There's a lot of gray areas, We don't know yet what happened.
I know if a couple fellows brought back my bitch in whelp, I'd call the stud owner to talk with him about the breeding and then let him know how many pups were whelped in the litter.
If all were innocent except "one", talk will go on as normal with any beagler or breeder, this is where there would have been holes punched in the ship early on, but it has been years...

[Tsa la gi]

Have kept quite for a long time. Things are still in the works, I have gave away a litter of pups that trace back to this cross and have pulled Jack from my breeding program. I will not keep contributeing to a blatant lie and a cross that never happened.

MR Robertson,

IT SHOULD NOT MATTER IF IT`S NORTH< SOUTH< EAST OR WEST. If I had a bitch that i wanted to breed and had access to a set of numbers to one of your hounds and filled out AKC litter registration papers and signed your name to them, submitted them to AKC and they issued papers,EVEN though WE had never talked to each other or MET each other and YOU knew YOU had not bred that dog in the year stated (WHAT WOULD YOU DO?)

I know the man that brought this to my attention,he owned Diamond Sadie`s Sport from the time he was 2 yrs old until he died at about 13 yrs old.( I know what happened), West River Patch Bonnie just trotted
her ass up the highway from Tenn to Wisc jumped in the pen with Sport got bred jumped out of the pen and went back home.I think very highly of this man and consider him a close friend and take offence at the remark you have made.

IF AKC makes a decision not to do any thing about this FALSIFICATION OF DOCUMENTATION THEY WILL HAVE LOST A LOT OF CREDABILITY IN MY OPINION.

This should not have any bearing on the Patch Hound only the Credability of the person whose name is on the litter registration and the hounds that trace back to this cross. AKC likes every ones money keep on breedin them.

I will not discusess any particulars reguarding this matter untill we get a final decission from AKC. Then I will Post the litter regristrations. A BLIND MAN CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE.

[lowell robertson]

I certainly would not describe the incident in such an assine manner as a dog trotting across half the U.S. and jumping into someones pen. You have no reason to take offense with me. I don't know your friend, and apparently you don't know my friend. Lets let AKC settle the issue and the rest of us will try to do what's right. I will point out that I have never sold a hound with Sport in it's pedigree, if the AKC determines that registeration was false I would be the first to advocate that things be made right as far as possible. I don't care if I ever sell another hound or not, I have enough blood in my kennel to outlast me. I am 71 yrs. old, God loving and God fearing. I have owned hounds since I was ten years old and run them for my own pleasure, I will not be making an attack on any other owner, breeder, trialer, rabbitt hunter or dog trader. If I get burned I will sit on the blister.
Lowell Robertson

[Tsa la gi]

I also know your friend. I have done business with him.I will be 71 his year so don`t give me the old age crap. There are many dogs that trace back to that cross and they are all GRADE DOGS. As far as my senario,that would take pressure of all except AKC. You slamed my friends INTEGRITY and I am defending it,the same as your defenging your friend.The REAL difference THIS man owned Sport at the time the matring was supposed to have taken place.The signature person has already admitted he has never met the owner of Sport and the owner of Sport has never met the signature person. DUH DUH
what part of this do you not or do not want to understand???? The only thing for some one to do IS come forward and fix this.
I was told the story about Bonnie being droped off in the yard and was told she`s bred the night I posted this. So some one needs to find who droped her off and have them tell what happened. The signature person knows whoo they are.

[S.R.Patch]

Who owned Sport up until he was 2 yr old(permanently registered white papered) ?
Who owned Bonnie up till she was bred?
I'd think matching these signatures up with the litter application might be helpful

[Tsa la gi]

Swamp owned Sport from around 2 yrs old until he died at little past 13. Ither Bill Bredihmier or Doc Fergeson ownded Sport and Dual Championed him out before Swamp bought him. The 1997 Breeding.

(This is second hand ) Bonnie was owned at one time by Elmer McKinney,Elmer couldn`t remember who he sold Bonnie to from my conversation with him. AKC should have documentation but due to the PRIVACY Claus They can`t discuss this with any one.of course if you PAY you can put her reg no in and get a 3/5 gen ped.

I know this is same ol same ol so I will just wait and see what AKC does. It would be intresting to see a copy of Bonnies papers with the owners name on it.

Sport would have had to been appx 7 yr old at the time of mateing.

[Swampman]

Well, the verdict is in and the AKC has chosen to bury their head in the sand.

It is with great reservation that I am posting, but feel it is neccessary.
Below is an e-mail chain between the AKC and myself, start at the bottom and work your way up.

Note:
Any hound with this cross is not papered correctly regardless. If XXXXX would come forward and state the true sire, correct registrations would be possible.
Sport was DNA'd, so the correct cross could be proven.

I am having trouble posting the documents, so those of you Patch breeders and owners that want to see the litter registrations, PM me your e-mail address and the pedigree of your dog and I will forward the litter registrations and the letter from the AKC to you.

So, those of you that don't care about true lineage, there are no issues.
For those of you that do, please don't threaten or harm XXXXX, his family or property, if you feel it neccessary, there are legal channels to follow if you so desire.

Swamp





All,
Here is what we pay AKC for!

Distribute as you wish, I believe we need to get the word out about the AKC.
This should not be just a beagle issue but all breed owners should be aware of how the AKC handles forged papers and false breedings.
How many of us truly have “pure bred” AKC dogs if this is how they handle such issues.

I am more frustrated with the AKC than the culprit who forged the papers now.

Rowdy

________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:11 AM
To: 'Maria Sendek'
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Maria,
With all due respect, it is so obvious, a blind man could see it!
The only thing that is compromised, is the integrity of the AKC.

This should never have taken 13 years to be discovered, the AKC should have caught this years ago.
It was discovered because of MY record keeping, not the AKC’s.
It is proven however by your very own documents, which obviously isn’t worth the paper it is written on.

I believe as I imagine all others will also when this goes viral, AKC is only worried about the almighty dollar, not the integrity of pure bred dogs!

So much for AKC being the standard in pure bred dogs!

RH

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:50 AM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Dear Mr. Holstine,

The ability to conduct a thorough investigation into this matter is compromised by the length of time, 13 years, since the action occurred.

Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 10:22 AM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria,
So there is a time limit on accuracy of lineage and papers on “Pure Bred” dogs with the AKC?
What is this time frame for accuracy?

RH

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:00 AM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Hope this works for you in a jpeg format.

Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:48 AM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria,
I am not able to open or read this document.
Please send as a regular attachment.

RH

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:39 AM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Dear Mr. Holstine.

I have attached a copy of the letter mailed to you on 5/6.

Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:31 AM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria.
I have yet to receive it, however in an earlier email (scroll down) you had asked if I wanted it emailed also and I replied yes.

Try to understand my frustration with the length of time this has taken.
I have spent a lot of money over the years registering with AKC and keeping detailed records.

RH

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:25 AM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Dear Mr. Holstine.

Our response to your complaint was mailed to you on 5/6. You should be receiving it shortly.

Yours Truly,

Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:10 AM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria,
It has been 23 days since my last correspondence and 8 months since this has been brought to your attention and still no response yet.
In all honesty, how long does it take to look at the forgery and see the obvious?

Please don’t take this as a threat but rather fair warning that if the AKC sweeps this under the rug, I will post all correspondence to every Beagle board on the internet.
People paying to register dogs with the AKC have the right to know what we are paying for, or the lack there of.

RH

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:07 PM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Mr. Holstine,

I will make a note of this.

Yours Truly,

Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:35 PM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria,
Yes, please e-mail responses also.

Rowdy

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 1:17 PM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Dear Mr. Holstine:

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

Once it has been reviewed we will mail you our response, typically we respond 7 days from the items receipt. If you also would like the response emailed to you, let me know.

Yours Truly,


Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:54 PM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria,
See attachments.
Please send me any other e-mail addresses I should forward to.

Rowdy

________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:33 AM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers

Dear Mr. Holstine:

I received your voice mail and returned your call, however, they were unable to locate you via the page.

Your message indicated that you felt the signature on the document in question was not yours. At this time you will need to forward your complaint to us in writing and attach the document in question. We will then review it to determine how we will proceed.

You should mail your complaint to the following address:

The American Kennel Club
c/o Case Management
PO Box 900066
Raleigh, NC 27675

On the front of the envelope please indicate the reference number: 201008281.

Yours Truly,

Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 9:40 AM
To: Maria Sendek
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers
Maria,
I received the paperwork yesterday, 10-4-10. If you will look at the litter registration copies, you will see that Mr. XXXXXXXXX definitely forged the application and my signature.

Take note of how I print, I have always printed using capital letters and my signature has a backwards slant. Also, I make my number 8 as two circles, one on top of the other, not a figure 8, and his lower case y is identical in his name (XXXXX) as my name (Rowdy). The litter registration in question is filled out in lower case letters, which is identical to Mr. XXXXXXXXX's, and the signature looks nothing like all the other applications that I have submitted over the years.

I believe there are many dogs that trace back to this falsified breeding and feel the AKC has sufficient grounds to ban Mr. XXXXXXXXX for life.
I feel the AKC is the standard in dog registration and this should not and cannot be tolerated.

There are many honest breeders out there that feel they have pure bred, registered dogs when in fact they do not because of Mr. XXXXXXXXX's dishonesty.
Quite honestly, if he was willing to do this once, it is highly probable he has done it many times in one form or another.

I have left a voicemail for you, please call me, I would like to discuss this matter with you.

Sincerely,

Rowdy H. Holstine



________________________________________
From: Maria Sendek [mailto:M1S@akc.org]
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 12:29 PM
To: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: RE: Falsification of Registration Papers


Dear Mr. Holstine:

Based on the number of years that have passed, the image of the litter application is not readily available to email to you. We will attempt to request this from our Microfiche items and then mail it to you. Please allow one to two weeks for it to be received. If the microfiche is not available we will contact you.

As far as the records for the litters sired by this dog we can confirm that during your recorded ownership there were 10 litters registered with AKC. We have requested the Microfiche for these as well and will mail once received.

Yours Truly,


Maria Sendek
Supervisor, Case Management
The American Kennel Club, Inc.
M1S@AKC.org
919-816-3797


________________________________________
From: Rowdy Holstine
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:12 AM
To: info
Cc: Rowdy Holstine
Subject: Falsification of Registration Papers
Dear AKC,
It has come to my attention that there may be a falsified breeding from my sire Diamond Sadies Sport that did NOT take place but yet there are two dogs registered as Sport being the sire.

The breeding in question is between:
Diamond Sadies Sport - HD881936
and
West River Patch Bonnie - HM286614

Which produced:
Plowboys Frosty Patch - HM80820502
and
Plowboys Digger Patch - HM80820501
DOB – 12-02-1997


The only registration number that I can personally verify is Sports, the others were given to me by a second party.
Do you have a copy of the signature of the sire (Sport) of this breeding, and if so, can you scan and e-mail it to me?
Also, is it possible to get a listing of all litters and whelping dates that Sport sired?
I have a feeling this may not be the only case.


Thank you,

Rowdy H. Holstine

[Tsa la gi]

I also am haveing problems with the documents. I will get it figured out and will post only the last e/m you sent me.
I would guess now that there will be so many boggy dogs reg with AKC it will be un real. Thats why I will NEVER buy another dog from him nor one that traceses back to any thing he bred. Call it Kennel blind or what ever there are only a very few I will go out side my own kennel to breed to or buy a pup from. I am so pissed now I could kick some ones ass. AKC also knows NEVER to Call and want to inspect my records. LET THE BASTARDS BAR ME.

[Tsa la gi]

Akc Is a nothing registry as far as I`m concerned now. They are money hungry could care less about the truth and have lost all credibility as far as I`m concerned. It is hard telling how many dogs pedigrees are counterfit from this breeding. They have made one hell of a lot of money off this and would not give any of it back.

FOLLOWING ARE THE DOCUMENTS ,ONE OF THEM IS FORGED. Certain things have been marked out. Keep on breeding dogs that go back to this cross if you wish ,the ancestery is not correct but AKC will keep on takeing your money, none of the registerations are worth the paper they are printed on.

[hammerenpatch]

This is for those who are coming into this topic late
click this link and be prepared to spend a lot of time reading
http://americanbeagler.huntingboards.co ... lse+papers

This is from the begining going back last year not trying to stirr the pot back up
if your coming in on this topic and need the whole story click and read
thanks

[upstatenybeagler]

So, ive read all of this. A lot to take in. I have a pup that goes back to sport/bonnie, so i basically have a grade dog, right?