New spin on running solo

[Mikka]

What is the value to run a dog solo, when we all know that beagles are pack dogs? So my question is what do you expect to improve or change by running a dog solo? Isn't it better to run in pack and let dogs learn from dogs than try to teach them by running them solo? I have yet to run a dog solo. As a matter of fact, I do run my pack composed of 6 dogs between the ages of 4 to less than one year old and have yet to see the off side of it. To the contrary, I am doing exceptionally well in trials as I feel the best teacher to a young dog is an older dog. Why would humans be better qualified to teach a young dog?

[sammiller03]

everything you say is true.. but can every one of those six dogs perform by themselves? or is one keeping the race going and your feeding five average dogs ? or do you actually have a pack of six dogs that can jump and run their own rabbit? to me solo time is the only way i know the answer to those questions.

sam

[Mikka]

Yes, they do! I put some money into getting some good dogs (reputed line I took the time to travel 1700 miles to see by myself) and truly, short of getting on my fours and trying to teach a dog to hunt , I am at lost of what running solo will do to help a dog. Any dog alone put on a rabbit scent or any other scent for that matter will follow it. But how can a human on all fours if needed can teach him that even an average dog will not be able.
Often I hear, don't run a young dog with mature dogs, he will turn rough! How the hell can he turn tough when he's learning from the best teachers?
Or another one is, young dogs will get discouraged if ran with mature dogs! I have yet to see a young dogs not trying its best to follow adults on a hunt and learn something real and not something a human perceives a necessity by running the poor bugger solo against all rules of pack dogs!
Not trying to make fun of the sport, just trying to understand if I am getting into it at the right angle. I am pretty red in the neck, but have living for many years.

[outrider66]

my thought is that a dog (beagles) must pack up well. but if they cant flat out run the hair off of a rabbit solo
then they aint worth feedin or breedin!

[Mikka]

Never occurred to you that the strength in beagles comes from the pack? Who are we to pretend that we can tell or predict what a dog will do running solo? It is not new science, any pack animal in the wild will raise their youngs together and teach them the ropes. Why would beagle world be different? Because we know better before even getting on our fours and pretend that we are dogs...?
Again, I am a pinky in all this, but I am trying to see it from a different angle that is constantly being painted for me. Not trying to teach the way, just trying to understand old ways...

[littlewoody]

Soloing a hound is for me I want see if he has the tools I enjoy running one hound . I can kill more rabbits over one hound then over a pack !

[Panther Creek]

To me, soloing a young builds his confidence. Then he doesn't try to rely on the other dogs in the pick to pick up those problem tracks or checks. If he wants to run that rabbit, he's gonna have to figure out how to keep it movin all by himself. And it's easier to see those flaws and bad habits that show up. Now as a dog gets some age & experience, I find myself soloing them less. Then they get to help train that young dog.

[sammiller03]

i think alot of us use solo time for selection and observation. i have witnessed dogs that look like a million bucks not look so great when they had to do it themselves. basically what i am trying to say is you can take a dog that can do it solo and run it with a pack but sometimes you cant take a dog from the pack and run it solo.. i have watched large packs of fox hounds were only one or two are running the fox but the others are in the race barking along. solo time is a good time to pick out a dogs strong and weak points . lets give a real world example. i got a dog through a series of events that was eight months old when i got him.. he had never been out of the kennel . in my books at 8 months they should be running their own rabbit and doing a good job, but i knew this was not his fault. so took him out and gave him a few sight chases and he took off on the third sight chase and has never looked back. one thing i noticed is he was a me to kind of dog . he would join in the race after it was going and really wasnt looking for a rabbit. so i started giving him solo time where he had to do it on his own and it has improved him ten fold. he now hunts good and is doing a nice job ,alone and with a pack. that is how i feel solo time is important. if he wouldnt have come around and started figuring out that he needs to go find a rabbit instaed of just running he wouldnt still be here today.

sam

[pilotknob]

Mikka your right for the most part,the reason these solo threads get heated and long from what I've seen is there are two different opinions on the need behind it.One side you have guys that mostly trial the other side guys that mostly pleasure run and gun hunt with packs.If you trial you want an independent hound that is use to running it's own rabbit regardless what it's on the ground with and what they are doing.If you are trying to put together a good pack you want a hound that will work from within the pack and make for smoother,cleaner running.The best hounds I've ever seen had been soloed a lot or allowed to run loose and were rabbit jumping,running phenoms.Some of the worst most disruptive,roughest hounds I've seen in a pack had been soloed a lot or allowed to run loose and didn't like another hound breathing down their neck putting pressure on them.I think it boils down to how competitive they are and or how they handle pressure.From what I've seen all young hounds benefit from solo time.I don't trial much anymore and mostly run and hunt.Do I give my young hounds enough time on their own NO.It's a lot easier to take 3 or 4 and have a good race.

[Mikka]

At what age and when should you solo a dog? How can a young dog show what he has if he has never been taught by the pack? I think that the hype about a big dog or a poor dog is made by human. I would even go further and say that outstanding dog have been put in the ground by humans knowing better!
What if young dogs were given the time to acquire the stealth and experience from older ones without the big human brain interfering?
May be then we would all have champions, or at least placing in trials?
How can we teach a dog to be a dog before it is raised as a pack dog in a pack of course and given the time to develop as a pack dog?
How often someone gets a year old dog and expect it to do good based on genetics... When the one year old dog is introduced to other dogs other than siblings on the same month that he is supposed to aw every body in the gallery

Again, just trying to get conversation going in a different way from what I see. No offence to be taken!

[sammiller03]

most of my pups are not started by an old dog. i usually run them by themselves till they are big enough to keep up with one of the more conservative hounds then they get solo and brace time and then get put in a pack.

[outrider66]

Mikka try soloing each off your dogs .and you will get a better understanding of this .and probably have a dog that stands out
more than the others.

[pilotknob]

No age,if you think you have a good young dog doing everything right.Take it out by itself and watch,might do great.Chances are if it has always been around other dogs it will act lost the first time or two.

[Mikka]

most of my pups are not started by an old dog. i usually run them by themselves till they are big enough to keep up with one of the more conservative hounds then they get solo and brace time and then get put in a pack.

That goes back to my original question, why not let beagle train beagles? Did we become too smart to even outsmart beagles and show them how it should be done?
Why do I hear that the best way to start a pup is to put an old female out in the pen?
Seems to me that if we think we have the answer, then it is the right answer...
Why not let beagles be beagles, let them be the best and then trial them?
This is the question that needs an answer... Not, this is how I do it and that is my way and the best way.
Sorry for taking to this like a dog on a bone but I believe that needs to be research much more than the navel starring statements from accomplished beagles or the ones thinking they are and saying this is how it should be d one...
What if there would be another way and I am not saying I have the way! Again I am a pinky in beAgle worlds...

[Mikka]

Mikka try soloing each off your dogs .and you will get a better understanding of this .and probably have a dog that stands out
more than the others.

Why would I solo when I have good results? I have a very good base as kennel seed and if the adults are that good, who am I to start soloing dogs when they haven't had a chance to be taught by the pack? That is why, I will not get a dog over 6 months and allow it to get in the kennel. First the dog will be from a proven line and will be given time to find its place in the pack. By 9 months, that dog will be running with my adults!
I believe, that too many people are not focusing on the pack, but on individual dogs that w I'll bring them recognition and fame... Sorry, but if you don't start with a good pack, you are doomed!
Just me thinking and hoping to generate conversation.