Hot nosed / Cold nosed

[bowhunter59]

is joe west and red tick same person has to be surely thertes not 2 of them in the world!!

[snowshoehareguide]

wingpatch me too. i agree with you i judge all my hounds the same. ability to catch game. bear bobcat coyotes hare its pretty much the same game to me. with hare im not trying to catch them and not always trying to kill them so lets say the dogs ability to show me the hare. i like dogs with extreme nose. if i see one track i want to put something on the end of that track. this is where joe and i disagree . he says they shouldnt cold trail i say they have too alittle. i also agree with joe alot . he does make my head spin a little sometimes like hilbilly said but thats my fault not his. hilbilly its cause we aint so bright . bow hunter i dont think you should compare redtick to joe. especially not on this board where redtick isnt going to get elected president. pete

[wingpatch]

HA, snowshoehareguide[did you ever think about just callen yourselfS.S.H.G.] L.O.L.....your the first one to agree with me on here with out turning it around to your way of thinking, ha ha . no pun meant joe? I still say no matter what game you are after, you need to make it do what it does'nt want too.

[ohioan]

IM NOT VERY OLD BUT HAVE HAD COON HOUNDS AND RABBIT HOUNDS ALL MY LIFE AND CAN SAY THIS TO WHOM EVER SAYS PEOPLE MAKE EXCUSES AND ITS B.S THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE A DOG WITH A BETTER NOSE BUT THE ONES WHO ARE IN THAT CLASS YOU MUST GET COLD FEET WAITING ON THEM HOUNDS OF YOURS TO BRINGEM AROUND I WILL TAKE A HARD DRIVING NOT OPEN UP TILL ITS HOT TRACK DONT GET ME WRONG I WANT ONE TO TRY AND WARM ONE UP A LITTLE BUT I THINK THAT GOES TO THE SPEED OF THE DOG MAYBE MINE HAS JUST AS COLD NOSE AS YOURS BUT MINE DONT WAIT TILL FROST HAS SETTLED UNDER THERE FEET BEFORE THEY PROCEED SOME PEOPLE LIKE A SLOWER DOG THATS FINE BUT I BET YOU NEVER GET THE EXCITEMENT OF CATCHING ONE ON THE GROUND NOT HARES EITHER COTTENTAILS SO IF YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOURS IM HAPPY FOR YOU GUYS BUT IT COST THE SAME TO FEED A BAD DOG AS A GOOD ONE.

[snowshoehareguide]

i dont see a cold nosed hound as being slower than a hot nosed hound. i have seen some cold nosed dogs kept around and used as start dogs that were slow. if theyd been hot nosed they would have been culled. if i hunted cottontails only i might need a different hound , i ran today with a dog from ohio he is out of a line of dogs reported to catch cottontail , he does a great job on good running , he couldnt run today , he doesnt have the nose or experience or both. yesterday i shot my limit with him in one hour. it was about 20 degrees warmer than today. im not picking on this dog but its a fact he is too hot nosed to hunt here today. high was 14 degrees.ohioan i do agree it cost the same to feed a good one as a poor one. a dog that cant run today is a poor one in my book. there was frsh snow and its above zero and any dog with a decent nose should run. ive owned two hounds in my life that in there prime would almost catch a hare. they both were as cold nosed as ive seen. ive seen hare dive under snow to get away and heard them squeal ahead of dog and nobody had shot at them,, i guess i know what you mean about a cold nosed dog being slower. i have to admit that some are slower than average but not all of them, some are speed demons, pete

[Joe West]

Pete: The hounds problem isn't that he's hot nosed it's that his nose lacks strength.

[snowshoehareguide]

joe well thats your words for it . he ran great yesterday it was wet packy snow. most beagles run in wet packy snow, a limit of hare in an hour doent happen every day here. dog ran perfect hunted hard to start the next one. made no mistakes. dog hunts with me but hunts hard. im hoping he will learn to use the nose i know he has but if he doesnt he is worthless to me. saw quite a few dogs today that there noses lack strength , and it wasnt a case of too many dogs cause he had his chance on one hare alone. whats the difference between a hot nosed dog and a dog whose nose lacks strength. i do know one thing there are way too many beagles in the world just like him. days like today really burn me up when i leave dogs home that can run to give a chance to dogs that are just a waste of good air. make somebody a nice pet. pete

[Guest]

Pete,
I read the puff and bluster about cold nose = slow and figured it was so far out there I would not even get into it. I have no clue how one makes the connection between the two. I have two hounds that I would describe as cold nosed or should I say super sniffers. One when run alone is medium to fast and the other is balls to the wall when the running gets going. The one I mention that is the faster of the two is my male Blazer and he is an ARHA LP Rabbit Champion. He is a helluva hunter and even though he is getting up there in years he still can hustle with the best of them. I plan on trying to get to meet you Pete and Chris too if possible next season so we can check out each others hounds and get some running in. I think you will be pleased with the running my hounds are capable of. As I have said in the past they ain't perfect but their darned good and I don't mind letting them show their stuff. I look forward to watching your hounds work. From the way you describe your running they should compliment each other.

Save a couple for us to run,
NYH

[Chris]

Pete: The hounds problem isn't that he's hot nosed it's that his nose lacks strength.

I'm probably going to hate myself for asking this, but please Joe, enlighten me as to the significant difference between those two terms.

[Joe West]

Chris: Probably will regret it because we've been over this grouond before. You all keep thinking that if the hound does not open on old scent but only on fresh scent when the rabbit is up and moveing that he lacks sufficiant nose to run under poor conditions and that only a hound who will open on old scent has sufficiant nose to run on poor days. I am illustrateing, or trying to, the FACT that streength of nose by itself does not cause the hound to open on old scent or to remain silent until the rabbit is up and moveing. IN this instance the hound who cannot run when other hounds can, lacks strength of nose which has nothing at all to do with him not opening on old scent. Remember, when the scenting is vary good the hound still does not open on old scent when it would surely be available to him. If we put down two hounds who both have vary powerful noses of equal strength and one opens on old scent and one only opens when the rabbit is up and moveing we begin to see that strength of nose alone does not account for this action. There are other factors involved. Any hound can be fooled if the conditions are just right and open breifly on an old line but for the hound who does so routinely there is a disconnect. That is, either the info that his nose collects is transmitted to his brain differently or the way that info is processed is different. So you see there IS a big difference between a hound who has a powerful nose who opens on old scent and a hound who has a powerful nose and who does not open on old scent.

[ACOMEAU]

Cold nose/Hot nose, Powerful nose/lack of nose what ever you want to call it Joe. The fact is most dogs right now are not being bred for cold nose/ powerful noses. They are being bred for speed. Opening on a cold track is a fault in a field trial. Opening in a check are without claiming it is a fault. So guys who want ribbons are breeding dogs with tighter mouths. If you breed for cold nose/powerful nose you are more apt to get some cold trailers, or dogs who have a little extra mouth. Not all of them, but the percentage is higher. Not all breeders are doing this, and most probably don't even realize its happening, but it is. Your standards seem to be very high, you want it all, tight mouth and nose, that is good, and if everyone did this we could avoid this debate.

[Guest]

Ha,, i think everone has a goog idea, why not breed all the nose out and just have a sight foot race. less start anew trial, everone line up with there dogs let a rabbit go[ because we can breed the hunt out to] and see who's got the best dog. o there is no need for them to bark, fact is that would have to be a fault. when the dogs are releasted they all have to start out on the same foot, running out of step is a fault to.oops i almost forgot all dogs must be deaf to no honering will be tolarated bab bad fault. all dogs found with any of these faults will be put down humanly

[wingpatch]

Now there is something to think about, What do you think joe.

[New York Hillbilly]

WIINNGGGPPPAATTCCHHH!!!!!!
DON"T YOU DARE GET HIM GOING AGAIN!!!!!
NYH

[snowshoehareguide]

i agree joe there are some dogs that dont open much on old tracks that have good noses. i will just use the terms hot nosed and cold nosed. this doesnt have to be so complicated. the main thing im after is dogs that can get the job done with no excuses about poor conditions. its ok with me if they are tite mouthed or extremely mouthy. as long as they can do it. i think a mouthy dog can be an advantage hunting hare, they make smaller circles. a dog barks a little on an old track when hare are sitting tite and it will loosen them up. if i hunted cottontails i may want a titer mouthed dog. lot of cottontail huntersthat hunt with me remark that hare arent moving right now. well id like to know when hare are moving in daylight. id saythat 95% of the time in daylight hare are not moving. they will sit still all day. anybody else got any coments on this. i know on bare ground ive seen them come out to feed at dusk just like deer and thats when i see them is deer hunting. i find it very rare to see hare feeding in daylight in the winter. but anyways thats another excuse i hear hare arent moving so dogs cant detect any scent. as far as i know they only normally move if undisturbed at dawn and dusk and inthe dark. sure is easier to start them first thing in the am with a dog that can smell that old track. hilbilly when are you going to breed that faulty mutt that barks when your holding her in your arms. email me privately cause i dont want anybody else getting hold of a dog with all them faults. and im looking forward to running with you. and anomynous on a cold day we could have that sight chase trial right now. ive got one dog i might enter. his nose lacks strength. you should see him on a good day. weve had at least 5 good days since december . day before yesterday he ran three hare to my gun in one hour. i let each one go by once and he didnt make a loss. its is the dogs that really shine on a good day that burn me up the most. with a little nose this dog is perfect. if you can pick your days hes great. im giving him some more time but almost sure its a waste, pete