Little Pack judging ?

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:43 am

Lynn, the dog was hunting hard, the rabbit didnt sneak out it ran out. The dog was acting real happy like he smelled a rabbit. He did come out of the thicket acting real happy and cut back in and came out on the line.I dont think because it took him some time to get it going he should be cheated out of the work he done.
I dont see how it matters if he knew or not. When you give a dog a Jump-Strike you didnt see, you dont know how it got moving. You just know where the other dogs are and that dog got the job done.
I know you arent saying I made a mistake, but I would be the 1st to admit it if I did.
I earlier said I should have given a check too, but after reading the Example in the rule, I think he should not have gotten a check, because he never opened and follow the track when the rabbit was first up.

Example: Hound A jumps the rabbit and follows the track. No other hound joins him/her in the chase so he/she is running this rabbit by himself/herself. Hound A loses the track for more than 15 seconds, but then straightens it out and again tracks the rabbit successfully.

. The hound that jumps the rabbit shall receive strike and jump points and shall receive check points if he/she carries the rabbit by himself/herself because the other hounds in the cast do not pack up and run the rabbit with him/her. At this point the judge may instruct the handlers of the other hounds to bring in their hounds and place them in the chase with the hound that first jumped the rabbit. Example: Hound A jumps the rabbit and follows the track. No other hound joins him/her in the chase so he/she is running this rabbit by himself/herself. Hound A loses the track for more than 15 seconds, but then straightens it out and again tracks the rabbit successfully. Hound A shall receive 10 strike points, 30 jump points and 25 check points. In this case the judge shall continue to judge the hound on the rabbit, even if the other hounds never join the chase.

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mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:49 am

If a dog has to know it jumped a rabbit right that second, every Little Pack Judge should never score another Jump-Strike he doesnt see. No matter if all the other dogs in the cast have minused out and are in the truck, because you have no way of knowing whether that dog knew if he jumped it right away or not.

Im not being smart or anything like that, just trying to show a point.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:22 am

mike crabtree wrote:Lynn, the dog was hunting hard, the rabbit didnt sneak out it ran out. The dog was acting real happy like he smelled a rabbit. He did come out of the thicket acting real happy and cut back in and came out on the line.

Then i will agree with you on this strike/jump

I dont think because it took him some time to get it going he should be cheated out of the work he done.

Can't see where i said cheat him

I dont see how it matters if he knew or not. When you give a dog a Jump-Strike you didnt see, you dont know how it got moving. You just know where the other dogs are and that dog got the job done.

I have seen several jumps,getting in the briars and i have also scored jumps based on were the other dogs are also

I know you arent saying I made a mistake, but I would be the 1st to admit it if I did.

That is the first steps in making a good judge

I earlier said I should have given a check too, but after reading the Example in the rule, I think he should not have gotten a check, because he never opened and follow the track when the rabbit was first up.

If the judge considered the rabbit produced,in this case strike/ jump and 15 secs or more passed then the check had to have been open.Your saying strike/jump with out giving the mouth(which is fine) rabbit was produced,so when hound picked rabbit up 30 or so seconds later and made progress of the track you must score him or her a check.

Example: Hound A jumps the rabbit and follows the track. No other hound joins him/her in the chase so he/she is running this rabbit by himself/herself. Hound A loses the track for more than 15 seconds, but then straightens it out and again tracks the rabbit successfully.

This example is a total different deal then you encountered

The hound that jumps the rabbit shall receive strike and jump points and shall receive check points if he/she carries the rabbit by himself/herself because the other hounds in the cast do not pack up and run the rabbit with him/her. At this point the judge may instruct the handlers of the other hounds to bring in their hounds and place them in the chase with the hound that first jumped the rabbit. Example: Hound A jumps the rabbit and follows the track. No other hound joins him/her in the chase so he/she is running this rabbit by himself/herself. Hound A loses the track for more than 15 seconds, but then straightens it out and again tracks the rabbit successfully. Hound A shall receive 10 strike points, 30 jump points and 25 check points. In this case the judge shall continue to judge the hound on the rabbit, even if the other hounds never join the chase.

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Mike i'm just getting both sides,sounds to me like the dog jumped the rabbit and knew it was jumped and pursued the rabbit to the rock pile,as said before wasn't there,Sorry if you took any of my questions wrong just getting both sides.Its not my place to question your abilities as a judge,just keep up the good work.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:37 am

mike crabtree wrote:If a dog has to know it jumped a rabbit right that second, every Little Pack Judge should never score another Jump-Strike he doesnt see. No matter if all the other dogs in the cast have minused out and are in the truck, because you have no way of knowing whether that dog knew if he jumped it right away or not.

Im not being smart or anything like that, just trying to show a point.

Mike i probably had the whole picture,pictured wrong to start with,like i said sounds like you made the right call on the strike/jump.

Now your quote above was to make me look silly,it doesn't!I don't take it as you being smart or anything, because it looks like you had no understanding to my comment about acting like he knew a rabbit was jumped.Those that read this and have chased after dogs for years will know what i'm talking about on that subject.

i will hopefully continue to learn as a judge and anything that i think you can help me on,i will be glad to set back and watch & learn.
Not trying to be smart azzed or anything just trying to prove my point on this subject.

Hopefully will see ya at wise county until then take care.

mike crabtree · Post by **mike crabtree** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:47 am

Lynn,I never thought you were questioning me. Heck Im a Cherry at judging. I sure dont know it all. All I can do is read the rules and go by what I think they mean.

As far as me helping you learn about judging, Lets be real. I just started, and will probably not judge in my lifetime as many casts as you have in the last 5 years. Everybody, and I mean everybody at the trials Ive been to say you are the Fairest judge they know. You judge the hounds, and not the owners.
I think I struck a nerve with you, and didnt mean to.I have a lot of respect for you as a judge from what I have saw and heard. I promise you 1 thing I wasnt trying to make you look silly.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:55 am

NO problem mike,you will do well as a judge as long as you judge the dogs by the book and a little common knowledge.I was serious, you very well could teach me a thing or to,you have to keep an open mind about life period and judging dogs.

I have no nerve up and didn't mean to come off that way,i know you have broad shoulders and can take it.

cya the 22nd

Laurel Mtn Kennels · Post by **Laurel Mtn Kennels** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:58 am

Lynn

Even if the hound didn't know it jumped the rabbit at first, even if it wasn't acting rabbitty. If the hounds weren't placed on the rabbit & they find it & run it. The hound whos presence jumped it shall receive Strike & Jump points.

Lynn Perkins · Post by **Lynn Perkins** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:15 am

Rick
after talking with mike more on this yesterday,i understood more of what took place.I agree on the strike/jump with him now.

thanks