Me too Dan
Do you have any trouble breaking the finished pups off fox if you want to have some of them just run rabbits? I'm thinking Big swamp rabbits that will let a dog stretch out and run.
Seems it would be harder to have them adjust to a darting, dodging rabbit like a cottontail after being used to stretching out wide open on a fox. Have you seen any make the change successfully?
How old is that dog in the picture? Brace dogs here do not look like that dog. They look more like bassets.
John
Beagle on fox trials
Moderators: Pike Ridge Beagles, Aaron Bartlett
John I don't have cottontail in this part of the country so that is not a concern to me. Running hare here is like running swampers. I find it depends on the dog as to how easy it is to settle them down to hare running. Unfortunately I don't have a place where I can solo dogs on hare to adjust them from fox to hare. Most of the hare trials in this area are hard hitting wham bam thank U mam type of events. If a dog can keep it's head on for a couple of hours in a LPH trial it usually can place. I don't LPH trial much these days for several personal reasons, However my two young males,ZIG and ZAG have both placed in the few LPH trials they have been entered in. As have Duggie and Clem. Zig, Duggie and Clem are BFCs and Zag needs a win to be a BFC. Clem is GBFC
The #6 dog in the picture is a 16 month old female. She won that BF trial and her litter mate sister is the dog on the extreme other end....she came in tenth..I think I placed 5 of my 7 entries that day.
My dogs are a long time removed from the brace dogs they go way back to. The pictures I have seen of brace dogs of the 50s and 60s were a lot different than what I see to-day.
Got to go run dogs at the fox pen tomorrow real early in the AM so Good Night it is.
Dan Kane
The #6 dog in the picture is a 16 month old female. She won that BF trial and her litter mate sister is the dog on the extreme other end....she came in tenth..I think I placed 5 of my 7 entries that day.
My dogs are a long time removed from the brace dogs they go way back to. The pictures I have seen of brace dogs of the 50s and 60s were a lot different than what I see to-day.
Got to go run dogs at the fox pen tomorrow real early in the AM so Good Night it is.
Dan Kane
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AlabamaSwamper
- Posts: 810
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:06 pm
- Location: Florence, AL
- Contact:
John,
What do you want with beagles? I thought all your dogs were greyhounds anyway. lol
BTW, is there a fox pen near you that has trials?
What do you want with beagles? I thought all your dogs were greyhounds anyway. lol
BTW, is there a fox pen near you that has trials?
"No stronger bond exist than that between a man and his dog."
Link to RabbitDawg board. (Old Southernbeagles board)
http://www.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=6643
Link to RabbitDawg board. (Old Southernbeagles board)
http://www.excoboard.com/exco/index.php?boardid=6643
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coyote hunter
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:31 am
JMurphy wrote:John :
after doing a little research it looks as if Dan Kane POSTS ON HERE UNDER THE MONIKER COYOTE HUNTER.bEV CAN CORRECT ME IF i AM WRONG
Hi there Mr. Murphy,Sorry you took Dan Kane for me or sorry Dan Kane.This is coyote Hunter Dan Reid not Kane.However when The coyote hunter makes a post it is no secert who it is that is my opinion when I post and I don't hide it weather it being right or wrong in your view.So you feel so sour about my posts on times is ok but the truth somtimes hurts I know,I have felt it myself a few times
Always Play after a storm life is great
I don't think anybody was out to slight anyone else. Somebody asked if Dan K. posts here, and I think J. was just trying to state that he thought Dan K. posted here under the name of Coyote Hunter, because Coyote Hunter is also a Dan who happens to be from Canada. Simple misunderstanding, no harm, no foul. A "moniker" is just another word for "nickname", which almost everyone here has one.
J. even left himself open to be corrected if wrong, so y'all are getting worked up for nothing, lol. So we're all cool, right?
J. even left himself open to be corrected if wrong, so y'all are getting worked up for nothing, lol.
So we're all cool, right?Lets stop this before it goes any further.This was caused by me by accident.After rereading Alabama John's post I realized 2 things .number 1 he wasnt asking if I or anyone else thought he ought to add beagle on fox bloodlines to his kennel.number 2 that I didnt have any practical experience with beagles on fox although I have been around a foxhound or two.I felt bad for not being more helpful with my first post to him.I was familiar with Dan Kane to a small degree because I go on the Beagles Canada site.I saw where Bev had mentioned meeting him at the futurity or someother type hunt up north.She also mentioned exchanging emails with him previously.I did a search on this site for Dan Kane.I found a post under the name coyote hunter that was signed Dan.Without doing further research I stated that I thought this was Dan Kane.Again because I wanted to put Alabama John in touch with someone who was knowledgable in the subject he had asked about.I think that Dan Kane didnt like being misidentified and also the implication that he used something other than his name.I apologized and he said no offense taken and it was done.If you think I am sour about anything you have posted Mr. Reid you are mistaken.I actually agree with some of your more controversial posts and even the the ones I dont ,I figure you are entitled to your opinion.I dont believe Mr Kane is familiar with you at all.I am not above pissing off someone if I feel they have it coming but I feel bad if its because of an accident .Again this happened because of me trying to improve on what I considered a pisspoor answer of mine to a friend.
J.Murphy/Murphys's Kennel
J.Murphy/Murphys's Kennel
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Alabama John
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:56 pm
- Location: Pinson, Alabama
My friend "J"
It is all straightened out now and everyone is just trying to help with the question. I appreciate your trying to find the expert and because of you he was found. The right Dan and the right Kane.
It is an interesting subject and more folks here are starting to or are already running beagles on fox or coyotes in pens. No shock collars needed.
Interestingly, I heard today they also run the big fox hounds after the same coyotes sometimes the night before you run beagles. I was told a big coyote will be worn out when the beagles get after it and it is apt to turn and whip the beagle pack. I have a beagle now that got ate up in the wild last year and she will be a great dog until she smells coyote and then you can't get her off your feet.
Thanks for all ya'll's comments!
NO, I'm not telling what Bev said in Tsalagi (Cherokee).LOL
John
It is all straightened out now and everyone is just trying to help with the question. I appreciate your trying to find the expert and because of you he was found. The right Dan and the right Kane.
It is an interesting subject and more folks here are starting to or are already running beagles on fox or coyotes in pens. No shock collars needed.
Interestingly, I heard today they also run the big fox hounds after the same coyotes sometimes the night before you run beagles. I was told a big coyote will be worn out when the beagles get after it and it is apt to turn and whip the beagle pack. I have a beagle now that got ate up in the wild last year and she will be a great dog until she smells coyote and then you can't get her off your feet.
Thanks for all ya'll's comments!
NO, I'm not telling what Bev said in Tsalagi (Cherokee).LOL
John
Alabama John:
A friend of ours is the publisher of "the Chase" magazine or at least he still was the last time I talked to him.He used to be big in fox trials years ago.As he got older he got more into showing foxhounds.Both he and his daughter have judged the Georgia International.One of the biggest shows they have.She is one of only a few women to ever be asked to judge it.I had an old time fox hunter tell me that this mans dogs wouldnt even be fit to run a fox anymore because he had got so far into the show stuff.One night when preparing to leave for a show a young female of his got out and hit a fox.That bitch was still running the next morning.When we first started in the ARHA in 1993 .It was this man that taught us what we know about showing a hound .I never got very involved with the foxhounds because I dont care for big dogs much and I like to see as much of the race as I hear.No real point to this post other than I felt like sharing a story.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel
A friend of ours is the publisher of "the Chase" magazine or at least he still was the last time I talked to him.He used to be big in fox trials years ago.As he got older he got more into showing foxhounds.Both he and his daughter have judged the Georgia International.One of the biggest shows they have.She is one of only a few women to ever be asked to judge it.I had an old time fox hunter tell me that this mans dogs wouldnt even be fit to run a fox anymore because he had got so far into the show stuff.One night when preparing to leave for a show a young female of his got out and hit a fox.That bitch was still running the next morning.When we first started in the ARHA in 1993 .It was this man that taught us what we know about showing a hound .I never got very involved with the foxhounds because I dont care for big dogs much and I like to see as much of the race as I hear.No real point to this post other than I felt like sharing a story.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel
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Lefgren-Lane
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 1:56 pm
- Location: MO
For those it may interest there is a liink to the SE Beagle on Fox results on the following web site. http://www.speeddogs.net/ There are links here to both National and Master Rules. A modified set of the National Rules are used by ARHA for thier Big pack format, or were the last I checked.
The gentelman JMurphy mentioned as publisher of The Chase is the President Ralph Hazelip. His daughter is Sue Alewine, and both are Board Members and Sue is also on the Executive Committee. They are certainly two of the best people anyone could meet and are both excellent judges. The trial results for the SE Beagle on Fox Association are published in the Chase
We had the pleasure of showing a couple of All Age Males under Ralph at the Grand Royal Amercan Foxhound Show in Sedalia, MO this last April. (We are very very proud of the 3rd place we won in the All Age male class) There are quite a few fox and/or coyote pens around. Here in MO there is a pen owner's association that works with the state etc. regarding rules for maintaining the pens and the wildlife in them etc. Many other states are similar. Just some of the states that come to mind that have pens, KY, NC, SC, Ark, MO, IA, TX, OK, KS, VA, GA, Fla, WVa, Miss, LA and I believe there are also a pen or so in Ind and ILL. Seems like I have heard of pens or maybe just outside running in Mich, Wis, NY, and Mass. There are also some pens in Canada. I think most are in Ontario. Do not know if there are any pens in AL or Tenn or any other states or if they are allowed.
This week the 111th Chase Futurity and National are being run in Miss. (The Brunswick Fur Club Trial is the oldest still running. 116th is being held in VA this fall.) I believe they turned lose some 540 to 560 for the Futurity 3 day trial on Mon and since the All Age running just stated today (Thur) I have not heard how many All Age were turned lose. (Last year they started 810 in the AA and at the start of the third day were down to 110. If memory serves I believe about 70 were still running at the end of the third day.) When I say "turn em' lose" that is exactly what is done. They line all the hounds up and at 5 am they let 'em go. The most I've ever seen set lose at once is 279. I can not imagine over 800. It has to be one of the great sights and experiences in the world of hounds.
JMurphy also mentioned the GA International held in LaFayette, GA. It is one of the last of the Open Foxhound Bench Shows. There are about 5 of them left. They are: (The VA International held at Abingdon, VA; the Grand Royal at Sedalia, MO: The National at Grenada, Miss; The GA Int; The Jackson County Foxhound and Beagle Show at Brownstown, Ind and I think there is an Open Show held in Canada) Ralph and Sue "cleaned up" with thier fine Tally Ho Am Foxhounds at Jackson County this June. Virturally all Foxhound Field Trials also have Bench shows, but the open shows I listed above are considered by many the most prestigious to win. At the National the hounds placing on the bench must also run. That is not the case at the other open shows.
While the AKC only registered 42 Am Foxounds in 2004, the Am Foxhound is alive and well. I guess there are about 12000 or so registered each year with either The International Foxhunters Studbook (Chase) or The Standard Foxhound Studbook (Horn). Papers from both registries are accepted by AKC, however neither of them will accept AKC peds because AKC allows people to rename Am Foxhounds when they are brought over to AKC. (The only real reason to register AKC is if you want to Show in AKC Shows.)
One final note the American Foxhound Club (AKC) held thier National during the All breed show (Griffin, County) at Marrieta, GA last Friday. Many of the top hounds there then left to go to Miss for the Chase National Show on Sun. Busy week for the Am Foxhound folks. If you get a chance, a visit to an Am Foxhound field trial and/or bench show is well worth your time. They are a fine bunch of folks and most here I am sure would enjoy hearing and seeing the "big" hounds do thier "thing", at least once in thier life.
The gentelman JMurphy mentioned as publisher of The Chase is the President Ralph Hazelip. His daughter is Sue Alewine, and both are Board Members and Sue is also on the Executive Committee. They are certainly two of the best people anyone could meet and are both excellent judges. The trial results for the SE Beagle on Fox Association are published in the Chase
We had the pleasure of showing a couple of All Age Males under Ralph at the Grand Royal Amercan Foxhound Show in Sedalia, MO this last April. (We are very very proud of the 3rd place we won in the All Age male class) There are quite a few fox and/or coyote pens around. Here in MO there is a pen owner's association that works with the state etc. regarding rules for maintaining the pens and the wildlife in them etc. Many other states are similar. Just some of the states that come to mind that have pens, KY, NC, SC, Ark, MO, IA, TX, OK, KS, VA, GA, Fla, WVa, Miss, LA and I believe there are also a pen or so in Ind and ILL. Seems like I have heard of pens or maybe just outside running in Mich, Wis, NY, and Mass. There are also some pens in Canada. I think most are in Ontario. Do not know if there are any pens in AL or Tenn or any other states or if they are allowed.
This week the 111th Chase Futurity and National are being run in Miss. (The Brunswick Fur Club Trial is the oldest still running. 116th is being held in VA this fall.) I believe they turned lose some 540 to 560 for the Futurity 3 day trial on Mon and since the All Age running just stated today (Thur) I have not heard how many All Age were turned lose. (Last year they started 810 in the AA and at the start of the third day were down to 110. If memory serves I believe about 70 were still running at the end of the third day.) When I say "turn em' lose" that is exactly what is done. They line all the hounds up and at 5 am they let 'em go. The most I've ever seen set lose at once is 279. I can not imagine over 800. It has to be one of the great sights and experiences in the world of hounds.
JMurphy also mentioned the GA International held in LaFayette, GA. It is one of the last of the Open Foxhound Bench Shows. There are about 5 of them left. They are: (The VA International held at Abingdon, VA; the Grand Royal at Sedalia, MO: The National at Grenada, Miss; The GA Int; The Jackson County Foxhound and Beagle Show at Brownstown, Ind and I think there is an Open Show held in Canada) Ralph and Sue "cleaned up" with thier fine Tally Ho Am Foxhounds at Jackson County this June. Virturally all Foxhound Field Trials also have Bench shows, but the open shows I listed above are considered by many the most prestigious to win. At the National the hounds placing on the bench must also run. That is not the case at the other open shows.
While the AKC only registered 42 Am Foxounds in 2004, the Am Foxhound is alive and well. I guess there are about 12000 or so registered each year with either The International Foxhunters Studbook (Chase) or The Standard Foxhound Studbook (Horn). Papers from both registries are accepted by AKC, however neither of them will accept AKC peds because AKC allows people to rename Am Foxhounds when they are brought over to AKC. (The only real reason to register AKC is if you want to Show in AKC Shows.)
One final note the American Foxhound Club (AKC) held thier National during the All breed show (Griffin, County) at Marrieta, GA last Friday. Many of the top hounds there then left to go to Miss for the Chase National Show on Sun. Busy week for the Am Foxhound folks. If you get a chance, a visit to an Am Foxhound field trial and/or bench show is well worth your time. They are a fine bunch of folks and most here I am sure would enjoy hearing and seeing the "big" hounds do thier "thing", at least once in thier life.
I use to work for a wealthy gentlman in Georgia a few years back. He had a formal pack of fox hounds with some crosses of English, July, and other stains of foxhounds from all over the world. We had most of the time 300 foxhounds at one time and would hunt on average 75 hounds at a time usally 5 days a week. Traveled to every state in the south and all up and down the east coast. This man taught me a lot about breeding and how to breed for the total foxhound. I breed beagles now using his philosphies on breeding. BTW we averaged catching at least 15 foxes, 10 bobcats, and a couple yotes every year. That's get her dun.
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Alabama John
- Posts: 2116
- Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:56 pm
- Location: Pinson, Alabama
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Lefgren-Lane
- Posts: 135
- Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 1:56 pm
- Location: MO
Houndog,
It sounds like you may be talking about one of the most famous houndsman in the world, Ben Hardaway and his Midland foxhounds. They have a web site, http://www.midlandfoxhounds.com/
Ben likes to run cats. A person on the Foxhunters on Line e-mail list just got back from spending a few days in GA riding with the Midlands. She said they had good running on coyote, bocat and fox in the 3 or 4 days she rode with them. Ben writing about his breeding program said his best hounds were crosses of (my memory here) 5'8's English Fell Foxhounds, 1/8th Traditional English and 2/8th's American Foxhound (I think you are correct about at least part of the Am blood being July nad maybe all of it.) If it has anything to do with the mounted packs Ben has done about all of it. Judged, ridden in UK, Ireland, US and probably Australia and New Zealand, I would imagine he has also hunted in France. (He has tried a bunch of other stuff also) There is a book about him called Never Outfoxed. It is an excellent read. Here is a link to some English Fell Foxhounds, they are followed on foot rather than mounted. I look at them often, thier conformation has tobe admired aby anyone that loves hounds. (I wish my beagles were minatures of some of these.) http://www.blencathrafoxhounds.com/
This board is about beagles.
Bev,
I have shown foxhounds against John and many years ago (twice) showed his very special Champion AA Black Gold Mizzou from which the Dog Food got its name. (He was the most stately royal attituded hound I have ever been around besides being a very wonderful example of what a Walker Am Fxhd should be conformation wise. He had an incredible presence. Almost intimidating in a way.) (My Foxhounds all go back to John's breeding) I have some pictures that I took at the Grand Royal this year of John showing his hounds. I'll try to get a couple up, hopefully later tonight. John did very well this year at several of the shows I memtioned earlier. He is co-owner of the bitch that took Best of Breed at the Am Fxhd National (AKC) last Friday. I believe I also have her picture from Grand Royal also. She is very very nice. I do not know how they did at the Chase National show in MS on Sunday. A lady from GA handles Skylark in the AKC ring and also at most of the Open Shows. I would imagine she also went to MS for Sunday.
This months Chse mag just came today. In it was an obit for John's Dad. Earl Allen. He was born in 1913 and got his first pair of Foxhounds from his uncle in 1921. I saw him a year ago in Sep when him and John stopped by our house. He had a wonderful eye for a good hound, beagle or Am Fxhd. I loved to listen to his stories of trials and running hounds in the Ozarks in the 1920's and 30's. His memory of the past and his descriptions of those days were fun to listen to. (Although I think a bit of an embarrasment ot John the last couple of years.) Earl Allen was a classic and one of the all time greats in the Walker Am Fxhd World. He is missed here.
I know John had cut down on his numbers but I doubt he is down to 30. When I was there last fall 2004 and other times in months and years before he probably had more like 130 than 30. Cutting down to John probably means he has 50 or so and has not bred a litter since spring. Supper time.
It sounds like you may be talking about one of the most famous houndsman in the world, Ben Hardaway and his Midland foxhounds. They have a web site, http://www.midlandfoxhounds.com/
Ben likes to run cats. A person on the Foxhunters on Line e-mail list just got back from spending a few days in GA riding with the Midlands. She said they had good running on coyote, bocat and fox in the 3 or 4 days she rode with them. Ben writing about his breeding program said his best hounds were crosses of (my memory here) 5'8's English Fell Foxhounds, 1/8th Traditional English and 2/8th's American Foxhound (I think you are correct about at least part of the Am blood being July nad maybe all of it.) If it has anything to do with the mounted packs Ben has done about all of it. Judged, ridden in UK, Ireland, US and probably Australia and New Zealand, I would imagine he has also hunted in France. (He has tried a bunch of other stuff also) There is a book about him called Never Outfoxed. It is an excellent read. Here is a link to some English Fell Foxhounds, they are followed on foot rather than mounted. I look at them often, thier conformation has tobe admired aby anyone that loves hounds. (I wish my beagles were minatures of some of these.) http://www.blencathrafoxhounds.com/
This board is about beagles.
Bev,
I have shown foxhounds against John and many years ago (twice) showed his very special Champion AA Black Gold Mizzou from which the Dog Food got its name. (He was the most stately royal attituded hound I have ever been around besides being a very wonderful example of what a Walker Am Fxhd should be conformation wise. He had an incredible presence. Almost intimidating in a way.) (My Foxhounds all go back to John's breeding) I have some pictures that I took at the Grand Royal this year of John showing his hounds. I'll try to get a couple up, hopefully later tonight. John did very well this year at several of the shows I memtioned earlier. He is co-owner of the bitch that took Best of Breed at the Am Fxhd National (AKC) last Friday. I believe I also have her picture from Grand Royal also. She is very very nice. I do not know how they did at the Chase National show in MS on Sunday. A lady from GA handles Skylark in the AKC ring and also at most of the Open Shows. I would imagine she also went to MS for Sunday.
This months Chse mag just came today. In it was an obit for John's Dad. Earl Allen. He was born in 1913 and got his first pair of Foxhounds from his uncle in 1921. I saw him a year ago in Sep when him and John stopped by our house. He had a wonderful eye for a good hound, beagle or Am Fxhd. I loved to listen to his stories of trials and running hounds in the Ozarks in the 1920's and 30's. His memory of the past and his descriptions of those days were fun to listen to. (Although I think a bit of an embarrasment ot John the last couple of years.) Earl Allen was a classic and one of the all time greats in the Walker Am Fxhd World. He is missed here.
I know John had cut down on his numbers but I doubt he is down to 30. When I was there last fall 2004 and other times in months and years before he probably had more like 130 than 30. Cutting down to John probably means he has 50 or so and has not bred a litter since spring. Supper time.