Option to hold dog as open...

[Wilson Creek Bill]

Im with most of you all, wins dont come easy or everyday, so i will take one anytime i can get it. and i dont have any dogs worthy enough for hound of the year points, so ill never have to worry about this problem. But it is something that goes on..and does make for a good conversation.

[Aaron Bartlett]

I have never agreed with the idea of holding a dog in a class. Im not really up on how LP rules are or how they run thier HOY race but I understand they arent the same. In PP dogs there is no limit to the number of wins or points a dog can have because they must certify before they can move to the next class. In LP dogs are not required to certify so im guessing that once they get the required points and a win they are automaticly moved to the next class. One thing I dont understand is how in LP they get any points at all if they scratch thier dog before the final cast is over in smaller club hunts. If there is a 5 dog final cast and a handler scratches his dog does it get 5th??? In PP a dog must run for 2 hours (which means 2 total rounds) thus if its a 5 dog final, you scratch your dog in the finals and the final round is only the second round your dog doesnt place and there is no 5th place awarded.
I think HOY helps some of the entry numbers in some of the hunts but thats about the only good I see in it. In some cases I think some good dogs win or place high in HOY but on the other hand ive seen some average dogs win or place high too. In my opinion it all boils down to whether or not you have the money and time to travel all over the country. I think to get a true HOY they would have to have it set up to where the average person could compete and not have to travel every weekend of the year. Just my opinion.

[mac40391]

i think that if a man is dumb enough to run these dogs all over the country and i'm one of them..just to spend all this money, time ,gas ect.
to win a trophy and to get hoy points thats crazy to begin with.i've had a couple hoy runoff dogs but they became qualified by just hitting the big hunts only and maybe a few local hunts..but i would never try to do this again,for one reason how much money do you think you spend to run for hoy???someone said 20,000 or 30,000 i think that is a little to much but
i would say maybe 10,000 counting gas , motels, entry fees, ware and tare on a truck is a big exspense..all that for a trophy and 1000.00 cash and some dogfood and a little reconition this to me is crazy..but what ever floats your boat right?? but if a person wants to do it he should only hit the big hunts that way if his dog does good he gets alot of points
toward hoy with a lesser chance to champion or grand this hound and dont have to take that hound to as many trials. but you have to have a nice hound to be able to place at the big ones consistently...my 2 cents


james mcclure

[mike crabtree]

In Arha LP if the dog is scratched before the cast is over the dogs will slot up. In Arha LP a dog also has to run a minimum of 2 hours to win .

[CPC]

Mike
They do slot up in that cast, but if it is the final cast and 5 dogs are in it, and a hound is scratched, then the 6 place hound does not move up. Just as if the final cast all run off game, the others place hounds will not move up.

[TurnLeftBeagles]

I've wanted to stay out of posting in this thread, but just want to clarify something. The H.o.Y. guys aren't always scratching their dogs and allowing the dog that didn't deserve to win move up. As was said earlier the dogs only move up in the final cast. Example: if it is a 5 dog cast and a dog is scratched by the handler there is no 5th place in that hunt. There is a rule that is being used that allows them to forefit the placement of the dog and it's in the Little Pack rule book. I don' want to stir anything up, just clarify that what they are doing is not against the rules.

This is straight from the Little Pack rules:
V. Scorecard and Protests
1. At end of the cast the judge shall total the scores and offer the scorecard to the handlers for their signatures.

2. The handler may lodge a protest with the judge by not signing the scorecard.

3. When the handler signs the scorecard he forfeits his right to protest unless the score on the scorecard is changed after he/she signs it.

4. If a handler protests and does not sign the scorecard, the other handlers who agree with the judge’s decision shall sign the scorecard.

5. If no protest is made by a handler to the Master of Hounds within 15 minutes of returning to the clubhouse, all handlers must sign the scorecard or they forfeit placement of their hounds in the cast.

http://www.arha.com/littlepack/lp_frameset.htm is the direct link to the rules.

I've done my best not to single anybody out or say he or she does this or that. I just wanted to show everybody what was in writing. I won't discuss anything about it. Just wanted the clarification here for all to read before this thread really takes off.

[WrongsideRandy]

Adam, So in LP if its a 5 dog finals cast and the judge brings back the scorecard and its Dog A 80, Dog B 70 Dog C 60 Dog D 50 and Dog E 40.....lets say Dog A is the winner and ont sign the card but all others do. Handler for Dog A dont file a protest with MOH. Dog a forfeits the win....does Dog B become the winner of that trial or does it stay in 2nd??

Thanks,
Randy

[TurnLeftBeagles]

Dog B would stay in 2nd place.

[mike crabtree]

CPC, That is right. They wont slot up if the whole cast has been ran and the card isnt signed though.

[mad dog kennel]

I have seen where one guy owned two dogs in the final cast and handled both of them and didnt sign for one of them but signed for the other and they were both scratched.

[Wilson Creek Bill]

I have read on this thread about a dog certifying. Im unfamiliar with that. Can someone explain it.

[WrongsideRandy]

I have read on this thread about a dog certifying. Im unfamiliar with that. Can someone explain it.

In PP a dog must certify by itself before earning Champion status. There is another certification before the dog can earn Grand Champion. Certification proves the dog can hunt, jump and circle solo...and is not gun shy.
Here is a link to the procedures and rules.

http://arha.com/progressivepack/pp_certification.htm

The Certification Committee will conduct the certification process in the same manner as Progressive Pack competition in respect to the conduct of owners/handlers and spectators. The Executive Board's appointed members shall have authority over the process. This test is to determine that the hound will hunt and verify that it can circle a rabbit to the gun, and is not gun shy. The successful hound earns and deserves the title "Progressive Pack Rabbit Champion."


Take care,
Randy

[Big Mike]

I attended the PP Ohio State Hunt, on Nov. 12th. I was surprised to learn that the dog that won the open class, that that was her 7th win this year in open class. She is a fine hound, and the owners are certainly nice people. Under the current rules they have the right to continue run the dog in the open class. BUT it just doesn't seem RIGHT to me.

this post is not meant to offened anyone. Just one man's opinion.
(ARHA) Rule should be 100 points and hunt win, dog MUST move to champion class.

[mad dog kennel]

Why is that big Mike?

[Big Mike]

why what ? what's your question Mad Dog ?