Question what is the best dog food?

[tflader]

I currently use Purina ProPlan Preformance. I would like to switch to BlackGold preformance. I just wondered if anyone could compared the two. I get tired of paying the price for the Purina. You can tell a difference in the dogs appearence, and how much of the food runs through them. A lot of cheaper brands most of it goes directly through the dog. I read on here some where that a lot of foods get their protien from corn which the dogs can't digest. Black Gold also advertise that their food is naturally preserved. This sounds good to me. Well I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts. My friends tell me I am paying way too much for dog food.

On a side note. I live in Hamilton OH. SW Corner of the state. Seems like the hunting around me in the public areas hasn't really been that grand. I wondered if anyone has any spots I should look into.

I enjoy this forum> I even enjoy all ya'll bickering. It's entertainment.

Going to have to bring my female to a field trial and show you how a beagle is suppose to run. lol
Thanks for the help and the laughs.

[Bunny Runner]

Here are some facts about dog food.
Meat (ie:chicken, beef, lamb, etc.) are the most digestable protein source available. Although proteins are found in plant matter (corn, soy, wheat, etc), these sources are less digestable BECAUSE they contain indigestable fiber. These ingredients must be processed and broken down for digestion and with this process, you are still getting alot of the indigestable "parts" which act as fillers (adds weight and substance) in your dogs diet.
Dog food companys must list their ingredients by weight on the bag according to AAFCO standards, but they don't have to list the source. So
I will use an ingrediant list for example. (this is a list from a very popular dog food)

Meat Meal, Corn Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Wheat, Poultry Fat (Preserved with BHA, Citric Acid and Mixed Tocopherols-Source of Vitamin E), Chicken By Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Poultry Flavoring, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, Sodium Propionate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin 812 Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Calcium lodate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (Vitamin K), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate and Folic Acid.

OK, I will start with the MYSTERY "meat meal".
Any ingredient listed generically means it can contain more than ONE meat source and (IMO) the company probably doesn't want to disclose the SOURCE of the meat. This means it could be horse, beef, pig, goat, or maybe even from carcasses of road killed widlife. The meal part is where they cook it all down (together) and then dehydrate it, grind it into a "meal" and finally add it into the other ingredients, which then becomes food for your dogs.
Second: There are THREE sources of grains in the top 4 ingredients. Corn meal, which we all know this is basically corn ground very fine. Corn gluten meal. The corn is processed with heat and chemicals and the "gluten" is separted out and is turn into a meal. Ground wheat is ground wheat. To me this is ALOT of fiber. I think there is a need for SOME fiber, but this would probably exceed a dogs needs and would just pass through and create alot of clean up. To much fiber can also cause the digestive tract to move to quickly and this prevents the digestion of proteins.
Third:
BHA, (and BHT) are chemical preservatives and have been suspected of causing health issues, which included cancer. AVOID these! The mixed tycopherals and citric acid (vit. C) are great preservatives and are perfectly fine.

You will notice that the PROTEIN souces are always listed BEFORE the preservatives. These are what the company has put in there as their MAIN protein source.

Fourth:
Chicken-by-products meal. This is basically most of the parts of the chicken that are "left overs" that can't be used for anything else. This could include feathers, beaks, feet, combs, etc.

When selecting a dog food, find one that has maybe ONE grain source in the top 4 ingredients. Here is an example of a top 4 in GOOD food.

Chicken Meal, Chicken, Turkey Meal, Whole Ground Oats, Chicken Fat (preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract), ...

Of course, there is little of this type of food available commercially, but I listed it here for reference.

This particular food would have a GREAT digestability and there would be VERY LITTLE clean up. You would also have to feed only about 1/2 of this as compared to the example shown above.

Moving on to your original post.
Knowing what I know about BOTH brands you have listed, I would NOT switch (not that I like purina, I don't). If you are having problems with the purina, then you have alot of choices that are decent quality foods in that price range. If you are shopping PRICE as opposed to quality, then you have even MORE choices.

The old add-age, "you are what you eat" also applies to dogs! You can't expect your dogs to perform at their best if you are feeding an inferior dog food.

Any one wishing to know the BRAND of foods I have listed the ingredients for can email me, as I will NOT state the brand on this forum.

[beaglehandler]

I feed Black Gold and have found that my dogs do very well on it. What I look for in a feed is that my dogs look good (shinney coats), perform well (lots of stamina) and very little clean up. I will not knock any brand of dog food and feel everyone should feed what they feel is the best for their dogs. What I have learned from talking to research people is that ground yellow corn is not good for dogs, provides nothing to their health or diet and is the cheapest filler that can be put into a dog food. I buy BlackGold by the half ton and the cost is right at .25 per pound.

[JMurphy]

BeagleHandler:
If you dont mind saying what type of Black Gold are you feeding for that price?

J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennels

[Bunny Runner]

beaglehandler,

Your right, everyone should feed what they feel is best for their dogs, but, most of us don't really KNOW what is best for our dogs.

When talking to the research people, did they tell you that alot of dogs have allergies to certain foods which can cause all kinds of problems. These problems can range from yeast infections in the ears/skin to vomiting and diarrhea. Alot of the allergens in dog foods come from grains and also some protein sources.
Like you also stated, some of the things they are using in dog food now days are cheap fillers, which do not benefit the dog in any way. I personally, don't want to pay for THOSE ingredients.

I have noticed that alot of the "sport" blends are extremely high in fillers and have wondered why that is. The conclusion I have come to is, most of the hunters have large kennels of dogs they have to feed, so manufactures have developed feeds that are easier on the pocket book. They market these foods as performance products and we are none the wiser. They are hoping we are totally ignorant about food labels and that we will not associate an episode of diarrhea or ear infection, etc, with the food they are eating. I guess they have hit pay dirt, because they are making TONS of money on our ignorance.

I will not "slam" any food (publically) and perfer only to give MY OPINION based on what I have learned through research and in the animal nutrition classes I have taken.
I say feed what you feel comfortable with, but do it based on YOUR KNOWLEDGE and interpretation of the dog food label. Know what the ingredients are and how they are produced. What makes them good or bad for you dog and why they are important or not important. Be an educated consumer when it comes to your dog food. After all, do you read the labels of the food you feed your FAMILY?

Finally, by feeding a "good" food, you are reducing vet bills (less food associated health problems), feeding less (higher kcals per gram), and cleaning up ALOT less feces (better digestability). So what is it costing YOU to feed your dogs when you add it all up?

[Bryan]

I have fed Black Gold with a couple buddies for several years. The dogs seem to do pretty good on it. I got started with it when it became available in my area. I have seen in a coon hound magazine where 3/4 of the stud ads they feed and recommend Black Gold. I usualy feed the silver 23/16 that costs $16.25. The black 26/18 may cost around $16.75.

[JMurphy]

I am not trying to tell anyone to feed or not feed anything.I will say however that Bunny Runner is the most knowledgable person in this subject I have ever talked to out of dozens of folks including chemists from our local Science Diet factory..Of the many feeds in the 16 or 17 dollar price range Black Gold is the one I prefer.The only reason I stopped feeding it is because my dealer quit carrying it.So dont get the idea that I am telling you to not feed Black Gold.I know many others who feed it and are very successful with it too..However the feeds that Bunnyrunner talks about are extremely well formulated .If you can feed half as much then you can actually afford a feed that is twice as much. Some of the super premium feeds are that much or more and while they are not practical for some folks they are something to at least consider for others.I say feed what you want to and are most comfortable with but educate yourself to always make the best decision.
J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

[Bunny Runner]

Since I have received so many replies wanting more information on dog food brands, I am posting several links to foods I feel are some of the best.
I will first post some links for reference material.

http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2001/301_pet.html

This one is physiology. It explains digestive systems and can give you an idea of what dogs are capable of digesting.
http://www.chu.cam.ac.uk/~ALRF/giintro.htm

Vitamin and Mineral requirements
http://dels.nas.edu/banr/cd_dog_vit.html

Health information (several links)
http://www.belfield.com/home.html

Food Brands (not listed in any particular order) Many sites have some good informational links on them.

http://www.timberwolforganics.com

http://www.eaglepack.com/

http://www.flintriver.com

http://www.naturapet.com

http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com

http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com

http://www.naturesvariety.com

http://www.premiumedgepetfood.com

All of these foods are thought to be excellent foods.
Hope this helps some of you out.

[Bunny Runner]

Thanks JMurphy.

I also should mention, if you do change your dogs food, do it gradually over about a week. This is really important to prevent dietary stress diarrhea. Some people think when they try a new food, that the food caused the diarrhea, but in actuallity, it's the stress of the diet change. This can be even more evident when changing to a richer (better) food.

[Alabama John]

I think we make too much out of the dog feed.

We fed for 30 years old moldy bread given us by a bakery and a bowl of grits and that was all except what they caught or found. Dogs did just fine.
First dog food I ever saw was JAZZ but it cost too much back then.

I used to feed Eukanuba but started having hair problems and it cost $1.00 a pound.

We tried several others and too much poop or poop smelled awful.

We now feed Black Gold Black bag for $15.50 per bag and a bag occasionally of the 24/20 blue bag when running hard, otherwise don't run enough to keep dogs from getting hyper on it. Poop doesn't stink and dogs have good energy.

I'm no expert, and what does my family know?
We ourselves eat strange things like Vienna Sausages, brains and eggs, and Chitlins. Rough ground white corn bread too and it sure is good even if as you say corn is bad for you and just a filler.

Corn was a main staple of animals and people for many years and they did fine.

[Bryan]

Bunny Runner, thanks for all the info.

[Bunny Runner]

Thanks Bryan!

LOL, Ala. John.

Dog food per se, has only been around since the 1950's, so before that, dogs got fed scraps for the most part. This is actually how they became domesticated from wolves.
They are opportunistic feeders and quite adept at surviving on a diet of various things.
Just as we have learned through time and science what things are good for US, we are now learning what is good for our domestic pets or hunting companions. I know people that are convinced that feeding them only raw meat (chicken, pork, beef, deer, etc) bones and all, is what's best for their dogs. I am not of the same opinion, but this just goes to show the wide range of opinions that are out there.
I totally agree that cornbread is GOOOOOD. I love it myself, but I don't feed it to my dogs because their digestive tract works a bit differently than ours. Where we have a adequate amount of microbial digestion, dogs, on the other hand, have slightly less microbial fermentation in their large intestine/colon which makes it harder for them to digest insoluable fiber. For example, the problem of diverticulitis, which is the inability to digest the hard coating on seeds (ie:corn, etc) and that causes inflammation in the diverticulum in some people. The symptoms would be diarrhea, pain, sometimes vomiting, etc.
It is my opinion (and that of many animal nutritionists) that the diets we have been feeding our pets are not completely meeting their needs and new standards need to be established in the pet food industry. The National Research Council has updated their guidelines (in 2004) to reflect the new requirements. Granted, most dog foods are adequate in Crude Protein, Crude Fiber, and vitamins and minerals, but are they OPTIMAL?

I'll raise this question just for reference.
How many people on this board are having ANY health issues (skin problems, ear infections, whelping problems, heat cycle, breeding miss's, lack of adequate lactation, performance problems, stamina, smelly, diarrhea, etc.
I have read ALOT of posts on the health board that could be interpreted as dietary causes.
A shiney, slick coat is not necessarily an indicator of adequate nutrition. It basically means they are getting enough fat's in the diet.

[JMurphy]

Alabama John:
I sent you a pm.

J.Murphy/Murphy's Kennel

[Richard]

I was feeding diamond and it seemed to be good feed. A buddy suggested I try black gold, I did and I like it very much. I feed the black sack. My dogs do great on it, look great and have lots of GO.

[mike crabtree]

Sportmix works great for me. 26/18 blue bag for $15.