Is finishing a dog to akc fc still a big acomplishment

[BCBeagles]

I have run in a couple AKC trials and I saw both ends of this discussion. My little female got picked up for overrunning the ends, by 15-20 ft, I still consider that pretty tight, but they wanted tighter that day so that is fine. Next one I saw hounds overrunning and they did not happen to be mine that day, she did fine, but in the end they were looking for a hound with more push and that style of dog one that day, mine made a mistake as well, so that is both ends of it. I think the running, be it cutting, dodging, ducking rabbits promote the conservative hound and the big runners promote the less conservative. It is all up to the judges and that is what I LIKE about the AKC, JMO.

[eddywilliams]

Certain judges seem to want only the recovery scored after most of these males have swung and swarped out of the check then they run to get the one out of the area that picks it up and takes it out .Now I have witnessed this and Im not bashing just stating what I have witnessed .In my days this use to be called reaching rough running ............. your going to get some with the males banging heads and rolling with it but when the track broke down these were heading for the hills .I am gonna go to a few hope things go better but what do I know could be me Wildcat this is great news that we can get along BUT I DIDNT KNOW WE WERE AT ODDS .

[LaMarr Rhoades]

thats what i noticed the most eddie

[wildcatfan0309]

Certain judges seem to want only the recovery scored after most of these males have swung and swarped out of the check then they run to get the one out of the area that picks it up and takes it out .Now I have witnessed this and Im not bashing just stating what I have witnessed .In my days this use to be called reaching rough running ............. your going to get some with the males banging heads and rolling with it but when the track broke down these were heading for the hills .I am gonna go to a few hope things go better but what do I know could be me Wildcat this is great news that we can get along BUT I DIDNT KNOW WE WERE AT ODDS .

[Aaron Bartlett]

If your "judging" AKC MidWest by watching only the 15" male class I feel your not being completely fair. I do 100% agree with what your saying about the 15" male class but that class doesnt represent all the other classes in my opinion.
I know that the judges can only judge what everyone brings them to judge but I have never understood why there is such a consistant difference between 15" males and the other classes. Sure I have seen some ruff stuff in the other classes but nothing like the 15" male class.
Speaking from experience it is getting harder and harder to find judges that are willing to judge the 15" class. There hasnt been to many 15" male classes I have seen that you could get a winners pack that wasnt ruff. As long as everyone continues to bring the ruff 15" males I think it will continue to be hard to find guys that want to judge them and the dogs that place will continue to be the same type of dogs.

[NeilKimbrel7]

I'm not gonna argue one way or the other but to you who have posted:
1.) have you ever finished a hound to akc fc in the past or present?
2.) what format do you believe would have titles that are more prestigous and y?
3.) have you taken your hounds to a different spo trial than Midwest....such as ubgf?
4.). If you were to trial you're cleaner line running hound (compared to today's Midwest hounds) in ubgf, do you think you would stay down or get picked up?

[mybeagles]

Everyone seems to believe the 15" males are the only ones running rough. That used to be more the case, but I attended two trials this last fall/winter and the 13" females ran rougher than Ive ever seen before at a trial. Judges were running 200+ yards to catch up with single hounds claiming the line when there were hounds working in the check area. The reaching hounds won and placed both days.

This is the direction many kennels are opting to go because thats what's winning. I don't think the blame can be placed on increased Little pack entries. There has been a big influx in judges that prefer the harder hitting/rougher hounds which continues to draw more of that style hound. Even judges trying to follow the rule book hound have their hands tied because of the type hounds entered for evaluation.

Some will no doubt view this thread as a big knock on the MWGA, but hopefully thats not the take away. The MWGA IMO has as many of the best hounds week in and week out of any association out there. The problem is the new obsession with speed; as a result some of the "best hounds" hounds are getting overlooked or passed bye, leaving far to many wondering......"What the heck".....which is why so many are responding to this.

The pendulum has swung sooo far that the owners of the rougher style hounds think they are being cheated when they get picked up for swinging, cutting, and disruptive overrunning.

Thoughts anyone?

Mybeagles

[Pine Lakes]

The dogs running today are no different than the early 90's when I went to my 1st trial. If anything the judges of today are more likely to pick a dog up that is being rough. My question is to those of you posting here that don't judge and have an opinion. Do you have any idea how hard & how much work goes into judging 50 or more 15" midwest males? I know of several hounds that have finished and there is a broad range of styles and abilities. Some are faster while some just eat a pack up in a check, and on and on. There is a wide range of styles of beagles that all run under 1 akc rule book. When humans are involved there are different opinions, abilities, and ideas. No matter what we are involved with there will be flaws, but I don't think it's fair to get on here and rip what is probably the most prolific beagle association there is without putting the work in yourself. If you don't like it get licenced and make a difference.

[Bobby Vest]

Pine Lakes I think you are getting offended when you shouldn't be. I don't think most are trying to rip the AKC. I see people stating what they have seen and wondering why. I knew there would be people get offended by any type criticism. I feel that is the problem with most organizations out there today. In my opinion there are too many thin skinned people that you can't question about anything without it being confrontational. If I can't ask questions and get an answer without it being a problem for someone then I guess I just need to find somewhere else to run my hounds.

[LaMarr Rhoades]

i have never finished one but i have ran with dogs that have finished in the past on a daily bsis ,and my dogs would be picked up in ugbf...our area used to be a hot bed of great dogs[not just good dogs]...im not bashing im telling u a fact,theres a dif kind of dog winning right now and if you wanna be competitive this is the type of dog you need

[Casey Harner]

i have never finished one but i have ran with dogs that have finished in the past on a daily bsis ,and my dogs would be picked up in ugbf...our area used to be a hot bed of great dogs[not just good dogs]...im not bashing im telling u a fact,theres a dif kind of dog winning right now and if you wanna be competitive this is the type of dog you need

There are rough dogs in every class. Last year at the coal mine challenge I got to Marshall. I seen a lot of rough females in the first three series during the fifteen inch bitches and the 13 inch males. Its in every class. I also predicted a few times which dogs should have gotten picked up and they did from what I seen. I believe from I have seen the judges do a good job.

[jdmart]

I feel like the big male class probably is probably not as rough as it was 3-5 years ago. Not sure what your seeing but when you come week in and week out it will look a little different. Guys that see one or two trials, or four or five your not being realistic. It comes and goes in all classes different people like different running styles thats what makes the world go round. I've seen some winners packs of little females that were rough also. A judge has to judge what is put in front of them. Just remember also some judges like a more conservative dog than others. Just like some like a ford and some like a chevy.
Something that hasn't been mentioned sometimes the luck of the draw leads to these things. Dogs that can get rough when pressure is put on drawn out together or those dogs are the high scoring dogs in their series and make it to the winners pack. If they do it by the rules then so be it. Can't say I have I haven't seen some get a little crazy. Can't say I haven't had one or two I'd like to kick in the a$$. But that is part of it from time to time. Feel like if you stick with you will see the cream rise to the top most of the time! Not sure what the point is by this post but finishing a dog in AKC ain't no cake walk. Lots of time, money and hardwork. If you beat enough dogs to get three wins and 120 points I bet your a pretty good dog.

[Bobby Vest]

Jeff I do agree with you there. I have only seen some of the trials in maybe 3 states. I just can't make them all with the price of fuel and lodging, and to be honest with you I don't think I have a hound ready for AKC right now. I do have a 15" female that is showing a lot of potential and I think she will do well in AKC. Like I said I wasn't trying to bash AKC in any way. I was just stating what I have seen and wanting to ask questions that I think can help any organization. I don't want to intentionally offend anyone and I hope I haven't.

[jdmart]

Bobby you didn't offend me in any way! Lol I know you are a smart enough man and been around long enough to know there are good days and bad days.

[wildcatfan0309]

I feel like the big male class probably is probably not as rough as it was 3-5 years ago. Not sure what your seeing but when you come week in and week out it will look a little different. Guys that see one or two trials, or four or five your not being realistic. It comes and goes in all classes different people like different running styles thats what makes the world go round. I've seen some winners packs of little females that were rough also. A judge has to judge what is put in front of them. Just remember also some judges like a more conservative dog than others. Just like some like a ford and some like a chevy.
Something that hasn't been mentioned sometimes the luck of the draw leads to these things. Dogs that can get rough when pressure is put on drawn out together or those dogs are the high scoring dogs in their series and make it to the winners pack. If they do it by the rules then so be it. Can't say I have I haven't seen some get a little crazy. Can't say I haven't had one or two I'd like to kick in the a$$. But that is part of it from time to time. Feel like if you stick with you will see the cream rise to the top most of the time! Not sure what the point is by this post but finishing a dog in AKC ain't no cake walk. Lots of time, money and hardwork. If you beat enough dogs to get three wins and 120 points I bet your a pretty good dog.

Right different people like different dogs
guys that like ruff dogs should run lil pack and guys that run a cleaner dog should run akc
aint that right
not looking that way to me
beleive ill just go back to gunning over the dogs and plessure running
its not life or death just a hobby
not worth all the money and time to go to a trial and not have a chance because judges cant stick to the rules and the format owners dont care enough to take a stand but as long as the moneys coming in they are ok with it
this will be my last post on the subject
thanks to everyone for answering my questions
i realize it still is a big deal and hard to finish a dog to akc feild champion
but just because they are a fc dosent mean they are a true gun promoted rabbit
but i also realize they are some good ones
but as far as me myself is concerned im not all that impressed with a fc like i once was
because like i said before i used to think a akc fc had to be tight in check power running dog with speed and control
and a dog being a akc fc would surely be all those things but that obviously is not true all the time
thanks