The complete hound

[Darryl]

" This ftch bitch I got at the house 6 wins and a second in 8 trial was beating her up a bit "
Not sure where you got that info from . I know of 4 trials she was in and never placed . I judged her a bunch shes a nice hound forsure but didnt walk all over the ckc trial circuit .

[CAP]

Just trying something out here... I wrote p i s s and it was changed to pee. Went to edit and it still says "p i s s", but on the board says pee. So bar with me on this

pee
p iss
pis s
pi ss
pee

lol, yep change ever one of them. That's funny

It is called a Wordfilter

[chapkosbeagles]

Maybe I was not gave all the right info than but still sounds like she won a lot
she is not my best but if u like her u would like the rest
she is the measuring stick around here if they out run her they stay if they dont they go makes it easyer to guage

[bfoster]

Wordfilter, 10-4.
Just didn't realize changing pi ss to pee was better. Still funny to me
Filters are good! To bad it can't filter out the people that are pissed off when they write a post, lol.

[MPankratz]

I believe speed is carried on the mother's side fastbitchs produced fast pups medium speed bitches produce medium speed pups

Nah. That's not how genetics works.

It's possible you have a female or females with dominant forms of whatever genes are responsible for the speed you're after, but I guarantee any males they produce with the same speed would be just as capable of passing it on. I'm more of a chem/biochem guy so I can't speak as authoritatively as I could in the Ivomec dosing thread, but I can't see any way that this could be true.

[chapkosbeagles]

I once had med speed females I could cross these bitches with the fastest males raise the pups an they always had the speed of there mother.
But if u take a barn burning bitch and breed her to a med speed males most will our run there daddy I have learned this thew trial and error jmo thow

[bfoster]

I believe speed is carried on the mother's side fastbitchs produced fast pups medium speed bitches produce medium speed pups

Nah. That's not how genetics works.

Are you sure about "how genetics work"? Here's something that'll make you say hmmmm

Research indicates that the female X chromosome is responsible for the large hearts found in outstanding racehorses... http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xf ... eart-1.htm

Large hearts = Speed

[MPankratz]

While that's interesting, but it doesn't do anything to suggest that speed is only passed down by females.

To quote: "Today, Eclipse’s mighty heart is passed through a number of sires." (it doesn't say so explicitly, but only to their daughters, of course)

Let's pretend that in dogs- animals whose speed is largely determined by how hard they WANT to run (you don't have a mini person on them urging them to go faster)- speed is indeed determined by heart size and that heart size in dogs is an X-linked trait.

A female carrying the gene for large hearts contributes that X chromosome to her offspring, male or female. The males are still capable of passing that X chromosome onto their offspring- though only to their female offspring as any males they produce will inherit only their father's Y chromosome, which will of course not carry the gene for large hearts.

Like I said, genetics wasn't my thing, and won't ever be, but I think I understand this bit fairly well, its pretty basic. I hate to make hard and fast statements, but I feel pretty confident saying that it's really unlikely that only females pass on speed. In dogs, more than horses, speed is almost certain to be the result of a complex interaction of genes, with no one single aspect (such as a large heart) responsible. A dog that trails rabbits fast is performing a complicated feat. They're following an invisible trail using just their noses while running hard through briars and brush and marsh grass, not running into anything. A horse is following it's predefined and unchanging course. It's running at absolute top speed for a short time. The Kentucky Derby takes a little over two minutes. Our dogs run hard for much longer period of time. I'd be willing to bet that lung capacity is actually more correlated with a dogs speed. a small bet

[chapkosbeagles]

[gwyoung]

I have been breeding for quite awile and couldn't even guess as to whether the male or the Female was more dominant in passing on speed as I have never bred to entirely different speed of hounds. With that out of the way. I will say big hearts, large lungs, etc: are not the determining factors in how fast a dog trails rabbit scent. If your dog is healthy than it can run at a much greater speed than it can trail a rabbit, I don't care how fast it trails one. Ever see a sight chase, sure you have . So what keeps a dog from running at it's top attainable speed while trailing, Genetics, their speed is bred into them. it is not the size of their heart or their lung capacity ( in healthy dogs) large lung capacity increases the amount of oxygen available and a large heart will pump a larger volume of this oxygen rich blood to the body's cells. This can lead to a quicker animal with more endurance, but genetics in the trailing hound will determine it's speed in trailing not it's heart or Lung capacity. In my opinion if one sex of hound was responsible for passing on large hearts ( which I am not aware of,wouldn't all dogs have a large heart by now as they all have Mothers ) then this sex could very well be responsible for the " top " attainable speed of a hound but would have absolutely nothing to do with how fast a hound trailed a rabbit!

[chapkosbeagles]

I condition hound sometime by running them on a rope out side the car on these dirt road

My tank dog run about 20 mph for the first mile than drops to a consistant 15 mph

Ace runs about 18 mph topping out and drops to about 13 mph

Ace trails a rabbit alot faster then tank on the days when both are running in heead high senting

A lot of factures determin speed longspine,legs,lungs,heart,ext

But where is the gene more dominate

[gwyoung]

chapkos, You ask which sex carries the dominate gene for speed. I have never mated dis-similar hounds so I dont know for a fact. But genes are genes in my opinion so which sex carries the dominate gene for Backtracking, mouthiness, shyness, under-bite, over-bite, You get the idea. The answer is it is an individual thing, it is the one which it is bred into to a high degree. Can it be the Female on speed yes, If the dogs in the line behind her are all 9's and 10's on speed she is going to carry a prepotency( I am not even sure that is a word but we all seem to know what it means) for a speed of 9 or 10. and this will be passed on in some pups( but not all, ) particularily if the male doesn't have a strong prepotency for a slow speed. some will be slower if the male is a good deal slower and his ancestors are likewise, in my opinion. hard to be 100% consistent in breeding on certain traits , but some traits are more easily and consistently passed on such as backtracking, linebreed that for a few generations and see how consistently it can be reproduced regardless of what they are bred to. If on the other hand she was bred to a male which had a stronger Prepotency for a 2 on speed what do you think the pups speed will be?

[MPankratz]

A lot of factures determin speed longspine,legs,lungs,heart,ext

But where is the gene more dominate

Exactly, and there are likely MANY genes responsible for controlling each of those traits. It's not often that major features are the result of a single gene (which is only coding for one protein- unless that protein is incredibly important). Then there may be epigenetic factors which determine how well a particular gene is expressed.

As it was mentioned, all dogs have mothers- and thus receive half their DNA from them. They also have fathers, whose genetic contribution determines sex by giving either an X or a Y chromosome. Even if speed were somehow an X linked trait which is exceedingly unlikely in dogs, males are still perfectly capable of passing X chromosomes on to their offspring (though again, only to their female offspring).

Someone may have a dog with a gene that produces faster dogs that is indeed X-linked, and from casual observation it wouldn't be hard to walk away with the conclusion that only females may pass on speed, but I can guarantee that close analysis will find that both males and females may pass on their speed, but if it's X-linked, the female would have a higher probability.

Actually, that may not be exactly true. The female would have a higher probability only if both X chromosomes bore this speed-generating chromosome.

Good records would be essential for discovering these sorts of things. You'd probably want to look at things like weight at birth, size, foot size, time spent sniffing... It'd take a lot of work, though I see that people are doing it with other breeds of dogs.

[ohlinger]

LOL so you are saying that it is't just from the female but you don't know exactly where or when it will pop up sounds to me like ur ruling out chapkos possibility but saying there are too many possibilities to know for sure....? How can you rule one out with out knowing for sure it does or not ? Breed a slow female to a faster male you'll prbly get slow pups breed a fast female you'll prbly get fast pups as the female i believe puts more traits in a pup than the male does anyhow...I'd say Chappy is prbly right for the most part...but i'm not a geneologist or a g.y.o.b or a scientist and I don't talk in x or y factors just breed 1 or 2 litters a year for the past 14 years or so.....sticking to my guns people get too carried on the computer..and once again that is happening here on this post. Lazy males do tend to throw lazy pups too....basicaly don't breed something that you don't want passed on. It has'nt taken latest advances in research logged graphs to tell you that...old timers said it before you started and the next group will say it after we are gone..

[chapkosbeagles]

All this said would it be easyer to breed a complete hound starting with a fast hot nose barn burner that can track olny when he is ontop of the rabbit


Or a slow cold nose hound who might pull a bad bark here and there
Olinger dont agree with me that might get u in trouble people on here dont like
I tend to speek my mind stright forward and never hold back not ver Ypopular method around herek
alot of these guys tend to beat around the bushes like them handlers and tally ho sticks I dont pull any punches but was also raised to have strong sholders never backing down even when out weighed by a hundred pounds or more as I get older I think I am getting smarter just taking alot of